Looking to get your mind melted? You've come to the right spot. Michael is an investor in web3, and entered the NFT scene through DeFi (De-centralized finance). We break this complex topic down to the basics and give some great tips on where to start, what problems it solves, etc.. Plus, we even get into a bit of NFT speculation, which was an absolute blast!

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Transcript

[boona]:

I think we're both recording all right. Good afternoon, Michael. How are you?

[michael_tant]:

Kyle, I am doing great, my friend. Um, it is. I just got back in town. I was traveling out west, Uh, close to California all last week. Uh, got to spend some time over the weekend in Paso. Um did a lot of wine country stuff. Um, so drank lot a

[boona]:

soft picture?

[michael_tant]:

good one and a lot of good food. Um, Doctor got to connect with some friends in the industry and uh, yeah, I'm doing. I'm doing pretty well, just just trying to get back in the swing of things recovering.

[boona]:

Yeah, how did it? How does it feel to catch up on missing like three to four days out

[michael_tant]:

Oh, my word. It was ridiculous, you know, like I brought. you know. I brought

[boona]:

of the end? Eleg.

[michael_tant]:

a wallet that I needed in case I needed to do anything. I. I spent maybe like thirty minutes with like one particular and F T thing that I was working to buy or sell. I meanted some. I. I meant into the project. I really wanted to mint. But then, but outside of that, like even scrolling on Twitter, you know, every couple of hours I feel like I missed an entire cultural revolution. I missed almost all of the Lote blue. Any golds

[boona]:

Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

you know, whole Ho, Almost almost a hundred percent of that totally missed it and missed every iteration of it. all the revolutions of it. Um, you know E, even my friends said Multi coin buying, you know, eight figures of of Lote, Like it was crazy. It was

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

nuts. I. I. I truly like. Yeah, I'm grateful that the market seems to have slowed down a little bit in N f ts right now, because it's

[boona]:

Mhm.

[michael_tant]:

need me time to catch up on what I missed. Um, but is i, I'm not. I'm not saying that I regret taking the vacation, um, or or traveling, but it is,

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

it does demonstrate to you that in a market like this, there is a high opportunity cost for not participating, Um,

[boona]:

yep,

[michael_tant]:

and that when you have an opportunity like this, which is a golden opportunity. In terms of uh, you know how hot everything is. How much volume there is. How many people are buying and selling like you got to take

[boona]:

y.

[michael_tant]:

advantage of it? Um, and I've learned that you to strike while the iron is hot, because when the iron is not hot, it is cold and it is cold for a a much longer time then you think it's going to be, And it

[boona]:

Mhm,

[michael_tant]:

probably then you'd like it to be right like this. This I. I, I mean, I think I have my T toter buyer like N f Ts are here to stay, and I do believe they here to stay. But this market that we that we are in right now with N f Ts is not here to stay. It will mature. It will slow down there. You know, there will. There will not be a hundred mints that sell out every day. Um, you know, in instantly tenex overnight, in terms of like floor price like that's, that's not going to happen forever. So, while you're here, make hay while the sun is shining. Um, Just you want to be careful that you know when the music stops that you have a seat and that you have a chair.

[boona]:

right, right, right,

[michael_tant]:

Um, and that you're prepared for, you know, but both personally and from like an investment perspective, prepared to capitalize on what is going to be a potential bear market. Um, and I know that's very generic advice, and I, I don't really like I, I don't really like generic advice. I, I don't think that most people that say, Oh, you know, this is allmania. This is a bubble is like super super helpful. Um, most of the time, Um,

[boona]:

no, no,

[michael_tant]:

unless they, unless the advice is like super nuanced, but um, yeah, but I agree with you that the market feels a little bit frothy. Um, and uh, yeah, yeah, no. so anyway,

[boona]:

it's it's and it's a weird. Its. It's a. It's a weird spot for me to enter in because you know, I just I'm I'm at a point where I just started a new career. I start a new, Um, A certainon a job on Monday. You know is where I'm able to finally get myself to a level of financial like stability where I'm actually able to pay off all my debt, so I don't really have a whole lot of cash Just to like throw it things. Um right now, which is it's's It's like a sick joke, right cause this is the time to to to do it, but I I can't. Um, you know, so it's almost like this weird like thing of like you just need to learn y. I mean throwing what you can like invest here, like where you can, um and do the things that you love. But it's really forcing me to like. Ask some really tough. What is it that I actually like? What is it that I am willing to spend this money on? What is it that like I feel will be long term. Because like I'll tell you, like what I've learned for myself so far is that I am terrible at predicting the hot like ten, twenty fifty, x, like two day you know,

[michael_tant]:

yeah, yeah,

[boona]:

projects that sell out, but I genuinely believe in. I have yet to prove this. I could be completely wrong, but I genuinely believe that like some of the projects I've invested in are going to are going to like are going to catch fire in about, you know one to three years. You know. That's my bet. I've always been good at that. I've always been good at predicting patience. Um, and so yeah,

[michael_tant]:

good that. and like, let's that's a listen. In my opinion, that's a better skill set to have

[boona]:

it is

[michael_tant]:

than than. and there' different skill sets. I'm not much of

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

a cater myself right, like I? I. I have a. I have a rudimentary understanding of of charts. I did some trading. At some point I dabbled in it, but I, I'm much better as a long term investor than I am as a trader, and in my

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

advice to you on this would be if you're coming into the space brand new like you said, you're entered in March, Y. You're at a point where you don't have you know tons of capital that you, that you made from the last crypto bull run to throw

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

like you don't have hundreds of theoreem that you can just throw it in a T projects right. Like

[boona]:

right, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

which is crazy. that because that's that's not uncommon for people to have Um,

[boona]:

right, right,

[michael_tant]:

But you, if you're in that position, Um, I think you have the ex. I think you have the perfect mindset and mentality about it, and that take the opportunity to learn bull market's like the one that, like the one that we're in currently for n f t. Iss, probably forg it' a whole, like they accelerate. Every every move is accelerated a hundred. x. And so

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

you learn so much by participating, being patient, being involved in those markets, Um, and you learn. You know you learn by Uh, to a, to a non insignificant extent, a much greater amount by participating in those markets, then you do um in in bearish markets, And what I mean by that is you learn

[boona]:

yp,

[michael_tant]:

more about how markets work in bull markets. Um. But

[boona]:

yep,

[michael_tant]:

but bear markets are opportunities for you to actually allocate capital in a way that's going to be most optimized for, for you know for long term, Um. And that's what to say That if you invest in the bull cycle like you're going to do poorly, that's not the point. Um. but the point is

[boona]:

right right right,

[michael_tant]:

there's a lot of people that are flipping a lot of people that are trading. A lot of people are throwing capital at in f Ts right now to sort of make money right now, and a lot of them will get burned. Uh, you know the in in the long term, so I don't think it's bad. I think you'. I think you have the right philosophy. You have the right perspective. Make those one to three year bets. and and then be prepared to make even more one to through your bets. When the market is not as hot, Um and uh, And and and the market's more mature,

[boona]:

there's actually some things that I like. There's there's so many projects that are like so out of reach right now for me, but like like, there's been a few people that have commented on the bear market, you know, And it's just like and I'm like, honestly, I can't wait for that to happen, Number one, So I can have this fomo. Just like completely leave me. you know. it's like I can get some rest. I can focus on a lot of other things in life. Um, but

[michael_tant]:

it's it's exhausting. It's truly. it's truly

[boona]:

it it is

[michael_tant]:

full. sucking. honestly,

[boona]:

it is. It is like you can't even enjoy a full vacation. you know, in in in California, which is one of the most beautiful places to to go on vacation. to uh, without thinking about jpegs, right, Um, and because I, I look at that, I'm like this. This will be my

[michael_tant]:

No,

[boona]:

time. I think by the time the bear market comes like all', Have you have squashed a lot of my debt? I'll have a little bit more income to like Toss in. I'm like there's so many projects that I think are going to Pl. Like not because they're bad projects, but they're just going to go to basically zero. and that's going to be my time to strike. Because like there's a couple of them that I know are really good and there's a couple of them that I see have a lot of potential, but it's just so far out of my price range. It like it's not even feasible. You know. it's not even. yeah.

[michael_tant]:

I know, it makes perfect sense. Can you? uh?

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

I'm just curious. like. Can you make some

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

examples like? What are the ones that you're most excited about, but potentially, or actually being able to accumulate in a Baar market when it's when there's not this much fun? Like? Is there particular one that you like Have major fommo, total eye on Um,

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

as an investment and also like, as just like a personal collector favorite.

[boona]:

yeah. great question. Um, So the ones that I have my eye on it's actually not board apes. It's the mutin apes. I think that they have some of the hottest potential. Um. I think the artwork is just so fucking killer like I just like that, is my favorite p. f p artwork project today, and I have. I say it with a hundred percent confidence because I just I think I think it just looks so fantastic. I think cool cats as well like they have like something about cats in the Internet always just go together and N f Ts are such a blend of internet culture finances and community that I think cats are always going to be a it' that to me is going to be like a safe bet like that. One's not going to that To me is never going to like Be a bad bed. Um,

[michael_tant]:

I, I fully agree with you on on cool cats and I, I wasn't even

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

one that was like super early to cool cats. I didn't meant them.

[boona]:

yep,

[michael_tant]:

I bought a couple when they were like you know, point three or something. I actually bought my wife a cool cat that she really wanted a couple weeks ago. Um, so I don't have a ton of. I don't have a ton, but I really do

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

like them. I think that they are.

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

I like their art. I, they feel very differentiated from a many

[boona]:

y,

[michael_tant]:

of the art styles that you get in in a lot of the profile picture projects. So I like cats. I like the guys.

[boona]:

we like the cats. you know, I, I like the cats. I couldn't. I couldn't get. I, I can't. I don't have enough to invest in it right

[michael_tant]:

That's good.

[boona]:

now. Um, I also think, uh, you know, now the one I I know is going to do well and when I is, because I also regret selling it the most. In the very beginning. My first big time flip was World of women, Um. where I actually made and to me a big flip. You know, I invested I. I. I paid mint for two women, you know, which is point one, six after, like

[michael_tant]:

Yeah,

[boona]:

a total, and then I sold it. F. I flip both of them for a total one point three

[michael_tant]:

hey, that's a biglit dude. That's a ten.

[boona]:

youth that to me is huge. It's mass. It's ten.

[michael_tant]:

I.

[boona]:

x massive. right.

[michael_tant]:

It's a in tape. It probably wasn't even that long like it probably was like a week or two. right.

[boona]:

No, Yeah, it was. It was about two to three weeks.

[michael_tant]:

Okay

[boona]:

Um, which feel felt like forever. Uh. but now I look at the floors at four point five, but I think that one has historical significance because it was like it touches on so many different things That like are a lot of good. Like number one. It's empowering women.

[michael_tant]:

total.

[boona]:

It has a, has a one hundred percent female art like the artist' artist is

[michael_tant]:

yeah,

[boona]:

female, Is going back into so many non profits and it cul like the art is just like it touches on a lot of different cultures and I'm just like man. Like. Why did I get rid of not only in this space? I was like talking to D with this yesterday. Like only the space. Can you flip something for ten x and actually be upset about it?

[michael_tant]:

oh no, no. I. I mean, I need. I talk with this all the time. And and you know there's a there's

[boona]:

Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

a mind that comes from the traditional financial background and we do a lot of. we do

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

a lot of investments together, And you know he's not as big into N. F, Ts, even and n f T are are a little

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

bit different. E, more and more in the token side, and like it's crazy because like we did a deal recently where it was like we bought a token and we did an investment and it was immediately like Oh, two weeks after. It was like up five x. and it was like only encrypt only in crypto. Can you get a five hundred percent return in two weeks and not even consider the possibility of selling Like, not even

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

like, not even like Sh, I mean it. It's ridiculous and and that's that's

[boona]:

yp,

[michael_tant]:

so. that's so crazy. It's even. It's honestly

[boona]:

Yup,

[michael_tant]:

even crazier in an f. Ts. Obviously it's not as liquid in an f, t. E. And it's It's a very different game that you y that you're playing. But like only I, there is not. there is nothing. There's no market that punishes sellers more right now than the n f T

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

bull market of twenty twenty one, Nothing

[boona]:

exactly

[michael_tant]:

selling, uh, uh, truly truly like I can't there. The number of sales that I have regretted pailless, in comparison to the number of in up T sales that I have you know, been like that was a good sale like and and

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

obviously that's that's not always going to be true. Like when the market's going to get to crash a lot of in a lot at some at some point, right, like and' say they're going to be looked back on it, maybe more fondly, but

[boona]:

yep, yep, yep.

[michael_tant]:

still like it is. It is crazy how punishing it really is for people.

[boona]:

y. yeah.

[michael_tant]:

Um, but yeah, no, it's a good flip. That's a good flip.

[boona]:

It was. It was a good one. Um, you know floors at four point five right, you know, even after so I' just like fuck, man. Um, yeah, no one thing I wanted to ask you Cause we. why? I think I actually know the arting of the answer, but we, uh. one last thing on the topic of like things that are going to go long term is anything Gary V does when it comes to enities, you know, like I,

[michael_tant]:

Okay, I, and this is A. and this is like a. This is like a. Um. This is a bit of a like wild card answer. This isn't an answer that most

[boona]:

it is okay, Okay,

[michael_tant]:

people would give Like meaning. I, I don't disagree with you, and I actually think if you propose this to most people, they would

[boona]:

Mhm,

[michael_tant]:

probably agree, But most people, if they asked which ones are going to be around, which

[boona]:

Yep,

[michael_tant]:

projects are going to be around forever, which projects are going to have in the most long term value. Most people would say cryptopunks. They would say art blocks

[boona]:

sure, Yup, Yup,

[michael_tant]:

are blo curated. Um, you know, and and Gary V would not be as high on the list. I absolutely agree with you. Um, I actually th you. I, I'm extremely bullish on on Gary V. Uh, and and and just because like I'm not a huge Gary

[boona]:

and see I am.

[michael_tant]:

V fan boy, like I, I wasn't one of the okay. Well,

[boona]:

Yeah. yeah. yeah.

[michael_tant]:

and that's right. and and so unt agree Partally because of the fan boys like

[boona]:

Right, right, no, no, I. No, no, No, fi taken Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

you and I don't. I don't. I don't say fan boy like, like, Yeah, I, No, he has. He has built an

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

incredible following of people, like strong following, passionate like you. If you want to be in, you know borderline you keep. say, like coltic

[boona]:

oh yeah, one hundred percent.

[michael_tant]:

following right, like like like and I'm not. I'm not saying you are, but like truly has built that much passion out of his. You know of his follower base, and for justifiable reason, like dude,

[boona]:

Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

the dude gets it. Um, but I, I think nobody. I. I don't know of a single person that has brought more unique individuals into into n f Ts in the last year and a half, then

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

Gary. Ve, like, if you look at the way that Wallt distribution for V Friends sets is set up in terms of like, unique, owners of the only n f Ts they own. Initially, like with their first nephew was be friends. It's insane. Um, And so I think he deserves. I mean,

[boona]:

y. yeah.

[michael_tant]:

And and did you participate in his book thing that he did recently? I'm curious.

[boona]:

I bough twenty four,

[michael_tant]:

Okay. I also, Yeah, I bought. I think I bought twenty four. Well, I bought twenty four books. Um, and I, you know I have no idea. What? the?

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

I have no idea? It was kind of funny. Because and there' is this thisor? There's this real discipality and crypto. It was if I go spend like point five, E or even one eighth or two Eve. It's like not mentally. It's

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

okay for me to swallow that, But if I go to spend five hundred bucks on books on Amazon. I like. Look at that. I'd like bulk. I'm like. what what the

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

fuck are you doing? Like? Why are you buying? Why are you spending this many this

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

many dollars on books. And and if you think about it in terms of Eve, if you think about it as like you're minting a Gary V n f T for point one Eth, it'd be an instant. No braner and I wouldn't. even. I wouldn't even pause even rotely. So there is a funny.

[boona]:

right, yeah, yeah.

[michael_tant]:

There's a funny thing there, but yeah, I mean, I I bought. I bought several events at the beginning. I

[boona]:

Oh sick. yeah,

[michael_tant]:

have a gift, goat. Um, and I mean I look, there's a clear road map, a clear path for success for him with the Vicon, and with future utilities going to be given to be friends. If I'm not, I'm not going to say that V. friends are like going a hundred. x.

[boona]:

right

[michael_tant]:

From here I don't think there's going to be many n f ts that hold value quite

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

as well as a Vfens, glue in in an extended bear market, and if they do get discounted I would absolutely look to be purchasing more.

[boona]:

oh hundred percent and I think something to make a correlation. We were talking a bit about this offline, but the the one of the key traces I look for in one of the things that's probably the hardest thing to do for people who are creating projects. whether it's our blocks orer, it's Po. whereas any new project is coming out is the ability to create demand like that is. that is probably one of the hardest things to do. And

[michael_tant]:

Oh yeah,

[boona]:

and people like Justasono and Gary V, are the two people that I know that can do at best like you know, crusing it

[michael_tant]:

crushn. I mean. yeah, and it's funny because they both have done it

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

very different ways, right like Yri, Gary has done on this sort of like mass

[boona]:

Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

marketing scale. Justin has done it. And and this, like hands, hands in the dirt, like personal community curation talk. think to

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

collectors personally, there they're two different models, No two different groups, but they're They're fundamentally very similar. Actually, Um, and yeah, the the ability to generate

[boona]:

but you, you

[michael_tant]:

demand is crazy, Um, and obviously in this market condition where people aren't punished for

[boona]:

right?

[michael_tant]:

aping into things that it's easier to generate demands Right and it, it sort of creates this like selfulfilling prophecy, Um, but yeah, no, I mean, Gary V should absolutely be commended. There's no doubt Im, no doubt on it.

[boona]:

Oh, yeah, a hundred percent, but I would. but I would argue on that one point though is that you know like what? What built that? A lot of that cultish following is in granted. he shares all over social media And he, You know. that's part of the marketing. but there's not one person. Whoever Like If he gets called in the street, there's not one person. He'll stop everything he does to go talk to him. You know what I mean. Like, yes,

[michael_tant]:

Yeah, no, I, totally, yeah, no, yeah,

[boona]:

but in a different sense like it's not in and art like just doesn it what the art form Gary does it like with just like the practical advice for him, you know, but it's it's It's insane to see and

[michael_tant]:

the sales marketing, the live of skills. Yeah, the business skills. Yeah,

[boona]:

yeah, insane insane. And and to tell you, even if he didn't have an exact road map, even if he said there was no vicon, I would still be as bullish on Gary. Yep,

[michael_tant]:

yeah, I.

[boona]:

right, right,

[michael_tant]:

I, id. I tend to agree with you. Um, I mean, I don't think Vicon is going to

[boona]:

no, no, he's he's going. He's going I, P, and licensing. He's like going to be

[michael_tant]:

be the only utility that holders of his enities get. Um,

[boona]:

creating comic books and T V shows in children's books. I can see it like I can actually see that happening. Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

absolutely no. I'm

[boona]:

yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

I'm to. I'm totally with you. I mean, yeah, yeah, I. I. I really do like u. re. Ve I bought the books. I like

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

his, N f. Ths. I have a couple of V friends, Um, and I, I feel extremely comfort and I, I haven't even like

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

considered like, maybe I should sell one like I do, extremely comfortable

[boona]:

right. that's that's that. That's a. That's a testament. You know. Um, that's a

[michael_tant]:

holding those.

[boona]:

testament to to like what he's doing, But you know I want to Wa. to want to switch Gar a little bit. you know, like, want to talk a little bit more. You might like. What. What interested you in the N f T space? What. How did you even stumble into the space like I? I know. it's probably a broad question. It has a very

[michael_tant]:

Yeah, um, yeah,

[boona]:

long answer. but I'm here for it.

[michael_tant]:

you. no. I mean we can do. Yeah, No, great great question. very question. So yeah, man, this is. this is a good one. So I mean, I first heard about Uh crypto in general back in two

[boona]:

Hm.

[michael_tant]:

thousand and thirteen, two thousand, twelve, thirteen. I heard about bitcoin. Um, I actually went to like this discussion group. Um, you know that's like in my community there was this this, like men's discussion group. They would

[boona]:

Yes,

[michael_tant]:

like talk about economics or or politics or philosophy, and like drinks,

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

whiskey smoke cigars. that sort of thing. and Um, and there was one. There was a. There was a guy that was a little bit older than any, but he was a younger guy. Um, and he did his. He did a presentation all about bitcoin. Um, and it was very interesting because one of the guys that started the discussion group was a big gold bug, and you know, had a ton of gold made a lot of money in the health care health carere world, and allocated a ton of

[boona]:

hm.

[michael_tant]:

capital to you know, to physical gold, And you know did very very well in a physical gold trade, Because when when who was buying it it was very inexpensive, Um, but you sort of approach the the buying gold from a sort of laza fair, Austrian economics, um, pseudo inarcho capitalist, uh perspective. In terms of like you know, states E, state money, state money is not sound, Um, state money is not dependent. We can look at how money is being inflated and money's being used. Its highly problematic. It's not a great store value. Good gold is at that, and and probably was at that time one of the best hedges against. you know, the state's increasing appetite for power. It was sort of the idea right, And so I heard

[boona]:

yeah, yup, yup, Okay,

[michael_tant]:

about Bit coin. It was very interesting because I, you know, I wasn't as old as the gold bugs, and so I sort of understood, like the Internet is big. Obviously and there's it's like. Now there's like this internet money. and uh, you know, and and then I learned about the idea of Blacko Jain Blck. It seem very interesting. Um, you know, I didn't buy bitcoin after that. I wasn't even at a point in my life where I, you know where I, I had any capital to to invest in anything. I wish I had bought some bit coin. Um. I didn't you know?

[boona]:

says everybody that day to learn about In twenty, Then that didn't you?

[michael_tant]:

Uh, of course, um, yeah, no, but what? Well like nucle like I, you know. I, I listened to like an hour long presentation about it and then an hour long discussion afterwards

[boona]:

Yeah, right.

[michael_tant]:

and I still

[boona]:

yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

didn't buy it, but I was very interested in it. It appealed to me. didn't buy it, but I was very interested in it. It appealed to me. Fast forward La, early twenty sixteen, Um, you know mid twenty sixteen, I started hearing about Ethorum Um. and at this point I was, I was much more integrated into

[boona]:

hm.

[michael_tant]:

the sort of the text Taxen text base. Um. I was thinking about technology. I. I, still, I still was passionate about economics and finance and money and what money was? Um, but I was more interested in Um. I was more interested in how like find about in financial applications that that could be used to sort of like replace and supplant certain existing systems, and so smart contracts.

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

Um, totally spoke to me. Like some. I got smart contracts very very quickly. Um. and when I understood the power of you can set this set of conditions. That, S so so much that when your asset, Uh, so that when somebody wants to purchase your asset, Um, it, s

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

ex. it's you know they put. They post their collateral the the purchase and it executes the transaction in a way that's trustless. in a way, this non custodial. in a way that doesn't require a middleman to take a huge cut of the fees. Um. and you know all you're paying is like the the fees to pay the network That it's you know to

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

make sure the the actual actions go. That was fascinating to me. I. I, intuitively, I, you know, after thinking about it, I understood how big this was going to be. Um, you know, I got into a theorem.

[boona]:

Hm, Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

I started to play the I C O game a little bit in late, twenty, sixteen, twenty, seventeen, Uh, you know, I, still, I understood a theorem. I understoodm contracts I. I, But you know the market at that time there were so many people that were in these I c o pre sales, where like it was there were. The money was so easy and so free to make to be made that many people sort of gloss over. Like Is the

[boona]:

five

[michael_tant]:

technology that we werere investing in actually good. Um, and there was a sort of like Camberne explosion of tokens that didn't actually have any value. They were just like named. The thing that this person that had like some idea to

[boona]:

right

[michael_tant]:

use block chain was for Um. and of course, on speculation alone, tons of them exploded. I made a lot of money. I lost a lot of money. I like, you know, I, I. I didn't end out. I didn't come out a ton ahead. Um. I. I. That's not true. I came out a

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

lot ahead, but I didn't start with very much capital. Um, and so you know, So with then in in twenty seventeen, I sort of like, sort of honed my thesis after I realized like a lot of the stuff is actual, just like dog shit, garbage, vapor

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

war. Um, and my I need. I realized like I needed to. I needed to figure out like what I wanted to hold for a while, and so I mean, I. I. I got lucky to be totally honest. like. I mean, I picked some really really nice coins to invest in and hold for the bear market. Um. I went extremely heavily into Chain link. Um, and Inlic was probably the largest investment that I made. And The, and the reason I thought Chain Li was the reason change was the largest investment is that I understood the implications for smart contracts. If they could be. I understood the Oracle problem very well in that smart contracts were limited to tokens, But if we could make smart contracts apply to anything in everything, in a way that maintained this sort of noncustodial decentralization, trillions

[boona]:

yp

[michael_tant]:

of trillions of trillions of dollars. So I, I, I am made a big investment chain link, Um, I invested in synthetics, Um, uh, s, and x, which you know was a synthetic assetfi protocol. I invested in Lend, which is now ave, um,

[boona]:

got you.

[michael_tant]:

because it was a lending borrowing protocol and I invested in B z x, which was a margin trading, a decent sizeed Marin protocol. So I basically went all in Onfi and I basically went on all and on what like, from an economics perspective, I understood were important pillars for def, uh, for for finance, for for for

[boona]:

Yep, Yup,

[michael_tant]:

some sort of system of finance to have right, Like, if you're to have financial

[boona]:

Yep.

[michael_tant]:

ecosystem, need lining and borrowing. You need leverage. Uh, you know you need synthetic assets. You get exposed to things that aren'tcoized and you need,

[boona]:

Yep.

[michael_tant]:

and you need data

[boona]:

Yep.

[michael_tant]:

feeeds, and you need price bes, you changeling, So that was sort of like my thesis. Um, you know I was. I was in school. I was doing other things outside the crypto.

[boona]:

gota

[michael_tant]:

I wasn't really working in the space as much at that point. Um, but I, I like placed my bets and

[boona]:

Yeah.

[michael_tant]:

thankfully most of them just crushed it even throughout the bear market and thankfully most of them just crushed it even throughout the bear market and they all do reallyally well. So I got a lot more capital. I started to get they all do reallyally well. So I got a lot more capital. I started to get involved in some of the dowlls that they were building, Um and uh hard. Yeah, involved in some of the dowlls that they were building, Um and uh hard. Yeah,

[boona]:

And and real quick what Let's Let's dive in a doll like like just for cause. some of

[michael_tant]:

go ahead. go ahead.

[boona]:

the audience like I built my G. You know, a lot of my audience was built on gaming E sports, you know, and I think do, in a weird way is

[michael_tant]:

yeah.

[boona]:

actually a great segway to that Like So like when you when you start getting into Dallas, Like what is like number? What is it? Do like? You know. What's what's your? What's the primary purpose of a? do? y.

[michael_tant]:

great question. Yeah, So a dow is a decentral sans for decentralized autonomous organization. It's basically, Um. It's basically a way to organize power in a way that's decentralized and organize or organize powerful action in a way that doesn't give a ton of power or capital to a single individual Right. So it's like it's like community power, community decision making, community capital that can be deployed. Um, you know when all parties or most parties in a group agree, Um. That's like a very, very

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

basic understanding of what a doubt is. Um. And you know Dows do a couple of things Dows. F. first and foremostly help help deal with like regulatory scrutiny. Um. You know they help, sort of they help. They help companies

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

that are building complex def protocols avoid a lot of the regulatory risk by decentralizing the power and decentralize the building of of those protocols. Um, And so that's like, sort of one thing that they do. Um, but there's also. There's also a huge social element of Dows as well. That's really really interesting. I actually just did an event on Dows with Inside Dot Com last month, Or, or it was late last month. Um, and we had. we had three speakers that were just incredible. Uh, Jonaslamus, his daughter, Rebeccalamus and Jess Loss, who are all members of various styles, building certain dows. I'm pretty sure I tweeed it at the video. You should go watch the video. If

[boona]:

Yup, Yup. I. I have a bomark. I have a bookgmark.

[michael_tant]:

you have in. It's the best. it's the best. it's the best presentation. It's the best deep dive into Dows, that you will get in in in forty, forty five, fifty minutes. Um that I can possibly recommend like in in a lot of its book

[boona]:

Yeah, and I'll link that in the illing that in the show. That' be blow that way. If

[michael_tant]:

Faes,

[boona]:

anyone listening wants to go watch it. They like as it's yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent.

[michael_tant]:

Yeah, that's that's a great one. And And and I, then I'm not oneed. Typically like plug like, Oh yeah, you should go watch this that one. though truly like If if anyone asks me what a do is now that's like my go to recommendation. Um, there's a lot more we. You get a lot more philosophical with dows, Um, maybe

[boona]:

Yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

I'll give you Mother Lingk that you can post in the shows as well, Um bars like, very, very intro to doubts, and I and I want to touch

[boona]:

yep,

[michael_tant]:

on how gaming affects Ourles. Um, let me let me jump back right into this

[boona]:

yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

like I, I'll wrap up this narrative. So I, I got it in defy, I started building a bunch of dolls. I started doing a lot of angel investing. Sure to write a. all of the different angel checks in the Cpps space. Um. you know, I'm in the process of launching a fund right now, Um. And so like Fast forward, That's where I'm at now mostly investing in building. Um, pretty much his

[boona]:

yep,

[michael_tant]:

full time investing in building. At this point when it comes to gaming incrypative gaming, Um. I. It's it's imperative that we touch on what N f ts are, and it's imperative to touch on like token economics, and took an economic incentive, so a lot of people know

[boona]:

yep,

[michael_tant]:

what Axi is Ax infinity. It's a play to earn model it was. You know. as far as we can tell, the first play to earn model video game that ever worked, Um. It's this idea that by playing the game you can actually be, you can actually earn real capital, real assets. Um. and this is different from a lot of other games that are, for example in of the r p. Gs. where you play the game, you grind into the game for hours and you do earn things. But the the things that you earn are limited to the scope of that particular game and their connect to an account that is not owned by you. It's only licensed by you and it's controlled by the game developer. So they can ban your account, they can take your assets. They can take you a hundred thousand hours of work that you grant that you put grinding into a video game. and you know, and it's just you did

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

it just to flex socially. At that point, right and like, And and clearly there's

[boona]:

yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

clearly there's value in that like it. Don't get me wrong. Played a lot like played, a lot of destiny. played a lot of all, Pu, lot of all the video games are

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

like you have to go, ground play play Bdscape right where. But the? and my point is this If there is, if there is enough demand for individuals to play games and spend thousands of hours playing games where they earn fake assets that aren't worth anything outside the outside, The confdence of the game. How much more willing are people going to be to play games that earn them assets that are relevant to the game, but also have value outside

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

of what the game developers say, and that like that. Like summarizes my, my, My Bull thesis on gaming and how it's going to work with N f Ts. When you bring your wallet, Yourre e theorum walle, your salona wa, or whatever it is into a video game. You are bringing your own decentralized identity and you're bringing your actual assets into the game with you, And you bring them back out when

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

you know, Assume you didn't lose them or whatever, because you spent them on something right. And when you buy it when you buy it, N f. T. that is an asset in a game. You own that asset

[boona]:

Yep.

[michael_tant]:

regardless of what happens to the game Right, And so there is a. there's a. there's a famous. There's a thinkmous quote. Uh, and it's je phasos that that makes this quote here, Um, and and and Bazo said that your take rate is my opportunity.

[boona]:

I saw that twed.

[michael_tant]:

And the idea here is that.

[boona]:

Yeah, I saw your twee when you said that, Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

And what do you what? he was? What? What would you say? Yeah, Yeah, guess

[boona]:

y, yup,

[michael_tant]:

Iweed I told it about it. so a while ago you, your take rate is min opportunity And and there's a great thread by some other V. C. I think it's an eight

[boona]:

y,

[michael_tant]:

sixteen C guy. Um, I'd have to go check. Uh, I'm sort of about this summarizes with axe, and the idea here is that like there were companies that Bages was competing with that had incredible margins, meaning their profit margins were thick and they made If I. I. If it costs them thirty

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

bucks, they made a hundred bucks, and Bazo saw that that their margin was his opportunity to come in undercut their competition, and so with something like Axi, what was something like a traditional video game game developers, keep and ga in owners of the game, keep all revenue spent on the assets in the game in a model like Axe, where it's played to earn, where you, where you actually pay, access to other players, where there's n f Ts that get exchanged, n f ts that get sold, Um, the model of the. Margins get dec, the get get shrunk rastically. they get shrunk by ninety five percent, but it doesn't matter because they beat the, they beat the competition. They absolutely crush the competition and they bring, and they hoard all of the players and all of the capital. And so that like that to me is is is the future like I'm very bullish on the metavers, I'm very bullish on my assets or my assets I'll be Will take my crypto punk with me or or whatever it is like, into all these different worlds and all these different games and people. A, and and and no game developers can be able to ban my wallet, you know, and take my assets. and and take by whatever my

[boona]:

yeah, right,

[michael_tant]:

legendary cloak was, You know that that I that I earned. So that's sort of

[boona]:

yeah, yeah, it

[michael_tant]:

like my very basic thesis on on gaming in N f t, Es. and why I view

[boona]:

use case.

[michael_tant]:

gaming as a perfect,

[boona]:

Yeah, yup.

[michael_tant]:

Um, like a perfect opportunity for Crypto. W, you know, but but happy to Um, like a perfect opportunity for Crypto. W, you know, but but happy to answer any other questions or elaborate on that, and yeah, answer any other questions or elaborate on that, and yeah,

[boona]:

yeah. yeah, yeah, mean. So when when you? um, there was something that I, ch. I. I completely completely went away from me. Um, w. w. we'll have to go back to I, I'll start by telling a story like yesterday.

[michael_tant]:

good,

[boona]:

I had uh, one of my neighbors when I was telling him. Like what I was getting involved in. Um, you know I was talking to about Nf T is like this is something I've been talking about for the past six months, you know, And he's He's in the gamings into fortnight. he's into. He's in all these things. and and when I was describing this to, I said, When you buy a skin in fortnight and he chuckled is a great example Because it. it's it's it's It's really important when you' like when I'm explaining these things to like. Make it relevant to the person you're explaining to like. Give him a real life example. In a use case of like what this actually means. You know how this technology can apply to them. Um, be cause. a lot of people can't see that. And so I said. Well, do you ask question? Do you actually own that Fortnight skin and he was like. Well, he's He's

[michael_tant]:

exactly

[boona]:

after there for about like ten or twenty seconds. He' like? Well, No, I said well, Like what exactly are you paying for then and it like and it clicked right. um,

[michael_tant]:

Yeah, I dont and listen like you know, I put for an I play

[boona]:

yep, yup,

[michael_tant]:

for with my brother. I play for with my cousin. And and like you know, and if and if you see like the o G skins in

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

fortnight right like it's a big deal. Um, but the idea

[boona]:

y.

[michael_tant]:

that you don't own that is crazy and it like there's so much economic activity that, like there's so much economic activity that could be added and could be spurred and could be created by by transferring ownership of those assets

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

instead of just licensing ownership. And that's just that's something that fundamentally N f ts are going to change for gaming. Um. I also am really interested

[boona]:

yes,

[michael_tant]:

in how token economics like work in conjunction with n f ts. Um, in terms of like how native currencies, Um, and you know Th those types of things like plug into, Uh, to plug into video games themselves in in in their interaction relation with F. Ts. super fascinated to me.

[boona]:

yeah, yeah, I think so too, and I think we. So you know, my like, Of course, I grew up playing like pokemon. I grew up playing like all those games with the Game Boy and you know that's like to me. that's like what

[michael_tant]:

Oh yeah.

[boona]:

axingin it is. Its Its. It's a New age Verion of Pokem min. And like you have your character's battle, and you can. I've I've never played a. I know it's a little bit more than that, but you know it' essentially beefed up version of that. Now, my my curiosity. I've always been an f, p. S. gamer. You know, I've always been a big Halo guy. You' be called duty guy. Y.

[michael_tant]:

okay,

[boona]:

Yeah, I, is, it

[michael_tant]:

oh, love man,

[boona]:

literally changed my childhood. I bought it well, parents at time, bought an x box just to play haylo. I couldn't even hold the controller. My hand chain. You know so much nostalgia there. right. um, you know, My fascination is how in And and now I'm currently playing Vaolant, Which it? It's touch it. because vaolent, in my

[michael_tant]:

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

[boona]:

opinion, you cannot find a game that has better skins than them. They are so expensive, but there is nothing that can be a valid skin, and if you don't know, talk about. please look like. Look up like the Elder flames, skin on valent. it is. literally. Yeah. okay, okay, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

no, no, I've seen they're awesome.

[boona]:

yeah, so I'm I'm fascinated with how f, p, s and n F Ts. and like these, like in gaming works with with a lot of these toomics in this Cr, and this, like How does that all work like? That's to me. that's like the million dollar question and taking a step further is E sports, uh, being bi, like you know, being built on the black chain like that's and yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

Totally

[boona]:

that's that's my thing, and I just don't. I haven't even come up with a thesis on how that would work. You know, I haven't even come up with like an idea of how that would work

[michael_tant]:

yeah. I mean I, that's a great.

[boona]:

Y

[michael_tant]:

The specifics the details are, you know, the devil's always in the details for sure, But the

[boona]:

right, right right, right,

[michael_tant]:

details and specifics of how it's going to play out are not nearly as important to me as like the as

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

having the infrastructure in place

[boona]:

yup,

[michael_tant]:

to facilitate it. and so like, I'm confident that if we get the infrastructure built out if we on board the users, if we bring more people into, you know in, and would get more people comfortable with with Web three, Um, like

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

that's going to get built, Um and I can't wait. I

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

can't wait for an Eps game that like, perfectly plugs into the back in on Web three Where I, if I want to go if I want to go play violorant. I plug in my Meadammask account, and and my super rare n f t. vaolorant skin is, you know only shows up in game

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

because I plugged in my Web Three account and that's the asset The and like, And then when I go went around, Uh, you know, maybe I can. I can seamlessly bet right on this Ept, so like I can seamlessly say I'll throw a F. I'll put five dollars on an Esct or whatever it is

[boona]:

Mhm.

[michael_tant]:

Uh for for this particular match. If I win the match. I, you know, I mean the. the. The possibilities once the tech is optimized are truly endless. I'm I. I really could not be more excited on on gaming as it relates to Crypto. I think it's one of the more overlooked aspects of sort of the marriage of N f. Ts. I think it's honestly the the most low hanging fruit for n f t for n f T, like for for n f E. mass appeal. If you want to make

[boona]:

y. y. yep.

[michael_tant]:

enf's explode If you want to on board people to crypto make video games that use meam assk, and use n f Ts. That's how you're going to get most people on

[boona]:

So question I half for you, Though this is actually something that's been popping in my head a lot. The so, the more and this has to exactly do with Ga. Me. The more I read about Salna, the more I watch about watch Sala, the more I believe, like I. I think that Ethium and Slaa have like there. I don't think one is going to overtake the other. I think they have both two independent. They. They're both going

[michael_tant]:

Y.

[boona]:

to excel, in my opinion, and parallel. Um.

[michael_tant]:

I agree with.

[boona]:

Now, The the way I look at this is that like when we, when we're talking about tech being optimized and games being built on Web. Three, Like if I think about that on the current state of the theoreem, like my, I, I actually get sick to my stomach of how cringe that would be. You know. like how slow it is, how clunky it is like you.

[michael_tant]:

Yes, Yeah, yeah, I would expens if it is. No. I totally get it. Yeah.

[boona]:

Yeah, right. so I, I feel that you know En if T is like when you talk about like fine art collectibles, you know, P, f, P. projects. That's to me for ever going to live on enities, like I could. never. If I bought that in salon, it, it just wouldn't have the same vibe you know, like I, I don't get the same feeling, but

[michael_tant]:

Yeah, well, it part of that and part of that is

[boona]:

Mhm, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

in in part of that, just just at interject for a second, like one of the biggest parts of art collecting. and and the the sort of value of our

[boona]:

yup, yup,

[michael_tant]:

collecting is tradition in history. Like one of the most important attributes and elements like core elements is is is history and tradition, And the theoryem did at first, and all the N f ts that are on a theorem. The the old ones. the o j ones have been around for Aw. While like our block

[boona]:

yeah. yep.

[michael_tant]:

is clearly like the first of big generative R. play right like Like Crypto Punks are clearly the Fi

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

like. So they have history. Salona right now is brand new. The n F Ts that are on Salona, they're awesome. Um. I, I have a lot of them, but they they? They currently don't have the same sort of. They don't have the same sort of weight tradition in culture yet. Um,

[boona]:

Yp, and that field that feel. Yeah. yeah,

[michael_tant]:

yeah, No. And and this is why I actually agree with you. I'm mostly bullish on Sala and F ts for gaming in micro transactions and gaming like I'm I'm

[boona]:

yep. Yep. I was just going to say that yup, y, yup,

[michael_tant]:

super excited about Star Atlas. Like for for for this exact reason, and and I may not think we're model I, regardless of, I think they're model like I. I. I've am very excited about what games people are going to build on Sala that use n f Ts on Sva. Um. I'm also buolish on a theor.

[boona]:

Yep,

[michael_tant]:

In games. I just think it's going to take a while working. Have to figure out some scaling solutions. We're going have to figure out how that's going to work and how it's going to integrate. Um, but I. I. I think you have it right and that currently the culture, the tradition, the art, a lot of that.

[boona]:

Yep.

[michael_tant]:

it. it has a premium when it's on a theorem.

[boona]:

Yep.

[michael_tant]:

It. it's special when it's a theory Mean it's o g. right now. It doesn't feel special for being on Salaa.

[boona]:

okay,

[michael_tant]:

I do think that changes over time like I do think the first salona n f T's become more valuable. Um, I just I, you know, but

[boona]:

right

[michael_tant]:

they just got mented, They're brand new and so you know, we'll see. We's see

[boona]:

right I. It's almost like you took the words like literally, verbatum like, right out

[michael_tant]:

how it goes from there.

[boona]:

of my mouth, Like where I was going with slaa, and gaming And start out, this was like. My, my biggest like use case for that was like, You know, I haven't done a whole lot of research

[michael_tant]:

Oh, yeah.

[boona]:

on the actual salon of platform or how it all works, but just just the the look. the christma, like the the graphics are are preceine, I mean, cause that's what got me thinking. I'm like. If you try to put that level of graphics on a theoreem, that just won't work. you know like because that was bit with Unrealgion Five, you know, And and that

[michael_tant]:

yeah,

[boona]:

it it

[michael_tant]:

yeah, no, I know. I know exactly what you mean.

[boona]:

looks so so so so incredible, you know. And and my questions around, like you know is, is there A? Is there a a time where down the road where Etherium n f Ts can go, the like it like the interoperability of n f T's on each chain? Like if you could put a fine art, like say, you're in a ship and start Ais, And you could like deck out,

[michael_tant]:

Yeah, yeah,

[boona]:

uh, your ship with a spray, you know, with a piece of art that you bought from A a crazy collector like say, like, or if you're in the ship, you could put like a picture. Your fidenza in the ship right like you know what I mean like. Is there A? Is there

[michael_tant]:

yeah, yeah,

[boona]:

a a point where they can connect and you can actually like. Use those and all the chains connect and everything is meshed together to where it's seamless? Do you ever see that? Yeah?

[michael_tant]:

there is a po. There is a point. I mean there's a look. There's a point where the tech becomes where where the technology. Um, where the technology

[boona]:

okay,

[michael_tant]:

is is is able to do that. The, the bigger question it like. Yeah, the bigger question is how what will the demand be like

[boona]:

hm,

[michael_tant]:

for that specific type of thing? Where will it be where how willll be situated? Um,

[boona]:

yeah, Oh, a hundred percent.

[michael_tant]:

and I think we're still several years after From that actually happening like, like, we need

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

to see the actual games built first, Um, and we need to see like, Yeah, we, we. we need to figure that out. Um. I do see a world where that happens where you can have multiple wallets connecting, Um, and maybe even from multiple chains. I think

[boona]:

gota.

[michael_tant]:

we're a long way out. though, Um, like, I. Yeah, I think I think we're a ways

[boona]:

Yeah, I'm one of those people that has always liked to like, live on the absolute

[michael_tant]:

away.

[boona]:

edge of things, and like think about like. even even when we're like so early, like point, zero, zero, zero, one percent of people know about this like I'm trying to add five more zeros to that about Like what this could look like? You know what I mean.

[michael_tant]:

Yeah, no, no, I mean listen and listen. That's like that's superpor. It's really important that we have people that that think that way and that that they that are constantly living on the edge and pushing the boundaries right like that's. we wouldn't have gotten to where we are in the space now if it weren't for people like that. Um. So, and I mean I, I do like to

[boona]:

Yeah, Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

spend a good chunk of time in that head space as well. um, but uh, but yeah know I. I don't know. I don't know when it's going to happen. I. I just think I think it's an issue of like

[boona]:

gota

[michael_tant]:

priority in terms of execution. And so I think there's other stuff that we have to P that we have to optimize first. There's other stuff that we have to prioritize before we can get there. Um, but I don't know. You know. Maybe I, yeah, maybe somebody should be. I mean, and there are teams that are

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

working on like cross chain compatibility like we have Ruin and Thor chain. It's reallyly working on like this general

[boona]:

Yep,

[michael_tant]:

decentralized atomic swap thing. Um, but then yeah, but the but the world you're describing. I think it happens some way. I just am not sure how it

[boona]:

gotcha. No, no fair. fair, fair enough. I, I wanted to get your takeck on that be

[michael_tant]:

happens.

[boona]:

cause like I like I, I can see the immediate future and

[michael_tant]:

Yeah,

[boona]:

I can see this playing out. but like okay, let's take that a step further. Um, one of one of which scares a little bit man like, Because it' it's the. It's the topic around crypt O currency that I know. I say the least about Um is around Def, And it's something I like. I'm excited about it, but I don't. I don't

[michael_tant]:

right,

[boona]:

like all. I know what what I know is come from fractional. So I have like a huge thanks like Andy. D's. the team for building that be cause like that to me is one of the greatest ways that I could learn anything about Def. because I'm buying pieces of art of people that I like. It

[michael_tant]:

oh yeah,

[boona]:

creates a that feeling that we were talking about. you know,

[michael_tant]:

yeah, I

[boona]:

Yp,

[michael_tant]:

think it's interesting. It actually works both ways. I think I think fractional. I frack.

[boona]:

y,

[michael_tant]:

I listen. I love fractional love Andy. Love, d, uh, love what they're

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

building. Fractional is incredible and I and I've I've talked about how

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

incredible fraction is for quite some time. Um it this what you' describing is an underrated aspect of what fractional has done and is doing. But it's it's not. but it's not any less important than some of the other problems. It' solving what fractional is doing for people that are into n f Ts is exposing them to Def. What it's bringing for people that are into Def that use unis, Swap That you understand how liquidated provision works? It's allowing them to come learn F T use in a way that is totally in their own native language.

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

And that is fascinating to me like that is it? It's brilliant and fractional like I. I so think fractionals. A fractional has a great working product. Totally works. I own. I. I participated in Justins twin token. Uh, I have some of anonymous'.

[boona]:

oh,

[michael_tant]:

um, x copy, five eyes, Um, I, I have. I mean, i. i. I. I think I have

[boona]:

yes, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

three or four other fractional tokens. Um. Well, so I have a bunch of roual tokens. They're awesome. It's really cool. It's a brilliant idea. Um. but what? but what you're exactly describing is totally correct. You as an n f t person Now get to S. Sort of understand how Def works and the importance of Def by owning a percentage of whatever this piece is that's been tokenized and that's incredible. What fractions going to do Is it's going to bring A, and we can talk about like what

[boona]:

y,

[michael_tant]:

Def is and my thesis on defin a second. What fraction was goinging to do In my view, is it's going to bring this sort of extended liquidity, an extended um programability to n f Ts. That is so important if you want to expand the market for N f ts. right now. you know there are funds that there are some funds like Three Hours Capital, for example, and I documented this and I' chat with all the time Like three Years

[boona]:

mhm,

[michael_tant]:

Capital bought a bunch of n f

[boona]:

yp,

[michael_tant]:

Ts. Them in V. Ando, they aped into tons of cryptopunks or blocks curated. You know, they even box with twin

[boona]:

yes,

[michael_tant]:

flames, Uh, deaf beef. All all these like very, very classic works of art they aped into, but they're you know. They're a bit different. Um. I mean they're They're very much Bill different in terms of how they how they allocate capital. how they invest all that stuff. And so w they. they were like. Sort of some of the first. they

[boona]:

hm,

[michael_tant]:

sort of aped into actual n f t ownership. But the problem for many funds is that N f ts are not liquid. Um, n f Ts are difficult to value, Um. And when something is not liquid and it's when it's difficult to value like it's just. There's a certain risk profile like the risk profile is totally different and it's not enough for somebody that wants to ape ten fifty hundred million dollars into an f. T sector in an f t space.

[boona]:

yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

It's very difficult to do that. Um. fractional was going to make that possible. Fraction's going to allow big funds to spend money allocating towards n f Ts, fractionalizing it, gaifying it getting liquid much faster. A, you know in terms of their investment, because now the token can be traded freely, and you, No, that don't Now they don't have to worry about finding a buyer for a

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

ten million dollar n f t. Um. and they can, And that can be something that that makes their investors happy as well. So I'm extremely bos on what bullsh and what fraction is going to do for bringing institutions in to the n f t space, because that's that. that's what it

[boona]:

I even think about that. Yeah, yeah, yep, yup,

[michael_tant]:

enables. Um, but I also am very excited because it it is going to allow n f Ts to come into the Def space. So the first part of like is it creates this liquidity, but it also creates more programability, which means when you have these these tokens that are that can now interact with any Def protocol, you can now buy a twin token and you can go lend it out and get paid. You know interest to lend out the token, or you could borrow twin, the twin token to do something with it. Um, or maybe you could stake, May, maybe maybe just and launches. You know, some. uh, you know, some token or some platform where you. If you stake your twin token as collateral, it help secures the network and you earn some sort of yield right like there's all these different complex financial, T things that can be done with tokens, that can't be done with n, f, ts. Um,

[boona]:

Hm.

[michael_tant]:

that fraction is going to enable and so I mean, Yeah, it expands. It expands the economic opportunity for an F. T's a hundredfold in my viewer.

[boona]:

gotcha gotcha. Yeah, I mean, so I think the question. some of the questions that I have you know around this is that and in first inform us, I didn't even think about the institutional level. The way I viewed it was simply from the person who uh need the lower barriry to entry at the time to learn. You know. So it's like for someone like me like you know, what I did was like I like it. probably five to six different fractional vaults. I just invested point o, one eighth like li, like twenty bucks. You know, like twenty twenty five. Yeah, I do, and I just spread it

[michael_tant]:

Yeah, I love it.

[boona]:

across because I'm like Okay, I can't. I'm an experiial owner like I C. I can't just read about this and under like A and just understand the concept, especially when I don't understand defin general, right, you know, I, I'm very new to it. Y. yeah,

[michael_tant]:

Really, and I. this. I applaud you

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

for for learning by doing. That's difficult to do. It's risky and scary to do.

[boona]:

right, Yeah, And and you know, like I, there was a couple of times where I got really

[michael_tant]:

but that's that's the only way you can do it.

[boona]:

excited. I. I was off on the math, like, instead of just like I, I forgot to move the zero two times over, and I thought I was going to make like five thousand dollars on it on a twenty dollar in vessel, But then someone was like, No, You forgot two. zeros. I'm like. Oh, fuck, but, but you know like, but, but you know it's just just goes to show the emotion. Um, but it, but still, even though I look said of five thousand, it was fifty. you know, I put in fifteen. That is still a three. x, gain on my investment and I'm like, Okay, that's kind of dope, right. um,

[michael_tant]:

I mean it's it's also such like a dopine rush, right it? It's incredibly

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

incredibly addictive, dangerous addictives, but yeah, totally I, I get it.

[boona]:

yeah, yeah, it. you know. I. I think the question I have is it like So when someone you know fractionualizes Uh, or they, they create a all, and they and they give up the entertain. put it in the fraction. lock it up the fractional. Vll. You know like you have the option to either provide a liquidity pool or to not like what is like. I know what a look like. I guess I don't even fully know what a liquidity pool is like. I know that liquid means money, and I know that you know you can. Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

I can explain

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

it. I can explain like a version, and there's probably a video that can that you can put in the show.

[boona]:

yeah, a hundred percent hundred percent

[michael_tant]:

Notes the people that are interested. So a liquidity pool basically is a pool of tokens or capital from which people can that that

[boona]:

gotcha

[michael_tant]:

people can buy and sell into right. So for example, if you know, let's say there's let's say there's a hundred tokens of it for a project that exists. Um, if I own eighty tokens, Um, it's going to be difficult for me to sell all eighty tokens into a liquidity pool because there's likely not enough liquidity for me to sell into And so liquidity providers Lo, for example, uno, Swp. they get paid in fees every time somebody swaps. Now you know they may lose money. O, in terms of like they, they may not, when they, when they provide liquidity. It' tpically fifty fifty. So they put fifty percent their token and fifty percent

[boona]:

gota

[michael_tant]:

the value in Ethoreum or U, s, d, C, or whatever, whatever the pair is, And when people swap it, it's swapping out those tokens. and that, of course, co you know, raises the price, lowers the price. that sort of thing, So they may end up losing Um. if the toke. If one token goes up way way way more than the other one, they may end up losing a little bit, but they end up making out

[boona]:

got

[michael_tant]:

okay because they earn fees on it. But liquidity pools are incredibly important if you want to be able to buy and sell an asset. Um, without going directly to Def, without finding a a, a single, a peer to pure party where you can just I sell a Kyle Kle Seles. To me, liquidity pools are ways to pool capital that people can buy into and sell into You know regularly all the time. That's sort of like a super super short version of it.

[boona]:

y gotcha know. I appreciate that now. I'll stuff have to do some more researchcause. Like the. I didn't even what's what's wild about the about Defs that I probably understand more about finance from the very little I know about def than I have in traditional finance all the way up to this point, which I think is the fascinating thing about this, because like I, I, I don't. even. I like

[michael_tant]:

Yeah,

[boona]:

when I when I saw my parents, like you know, like when my parents were telling me about, like you know, investing in four one K and stocks all those other things. And like you know, then Rob Robin Hood came out with fractional shares and I'm just like that All seems so boring. Like that is like that is just the most boring thing. I don't want to learn about this like this. Is this like I could be so I could be doing something so much better with it' my time. and I think that's what. Honestly, the way I'm looking at this is that traditional finance wants it to seem so it's all gateca and it's all like insider knowledge. Um to where you want to go play outside versus making your money work for you. You know what I mean,

[michael_tant]:

yeah, yeah, I mean it, look it. Yeah, no, you're exactly right. and I mean and boring and safe is how. what boring and safe is I is. Yeah, boring and safe is how a lot of people o about how a lot of people in the traditional financial system in the United

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

States, they're okay with boring and safe. The problem is that like the way that inflation has gone, the way that monetary policy has changed the way that spending has changed the way that inflation, the way that asset inflation has happened, Boring and

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

the yields are are bad now and so boring. And safe doesn't cut it anymore, Bo and safe would cut it. You know, thirty forty fifty years ago. Boring and safe is not boring and safe. it doesn't it, doesn't it's it's not. It's

[boona]:

no, no, no,

[michael_tant]:

not working for people that are our age at all. Um, and so yeah, I mean, yeah, Crypto was a revolution. Crypto was a crip. It was a revolt against traditional financial system. In many respects. I mean, you know, I. I was just having a chat with a another good friend of mine who um, for actually born and raised in Venezuela. Um, you know was a, you know, was a political activist for a long time in Venezuela. Um, a, an advocate for free speech and for property rights and economic freedom. Um, you know, and uh, Because you know, at the time when he was in Venezuela, the

[boona]:

Mhm,

[michael_tant]:

their, their monetary policy was horrible. Property rights are horrible. The government can just take your shit any time you know. the taxation is horrible. and if you criticized the government for any of these actions you can get. you can go to president kidnappeding. get shot and killed. All this stuff right, really really bad.

[boona]:

Wd. Yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

and like you know he, he had this experience where he didn't. he didn't. He didn't have a lot of wealth. What little you know, what little money he and his family had. It was often taken from them. It got. It got devalued when he spoke out against it. you know he, tri. he was. He was almost killed several times. They kidnapped his cousin, thinking it was him

[boona]:

wow.

[michael_tant]:

at one point and I, I mean it, these real really scary stuff right. and it's like, And so So stories like his are the types of stories that like really make me excited about the cripy revolution that we're building and that like when he talks about crypto, and he talks about building permissionless networks And he talks about owning money and owning control of your a capital and only control your assets, Like

[boona]:

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

it's deeply personal to him. Um, and you know because, because, the because, the experience that he's had and I don't, I, I don't think he's alone in in. I mean you know his experience is, of

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

course, you know, very bizarre and insane and crazy that it happen to him. But his perspective on the world and his perspective on finance is he's not. He's not alone in that perspective and so I'm extremely bulish on the Cr revolution, but I also believe it's incredibly important like. I really do think that democratizing economic opportunity, giving individuals and communities ownership of their own assets, ownership of their own work is is incredibly important, and cutting out middlemen both corporate and state. I, You know, it couldn't be. It couldn't be more important right now for for for the society and culture that that we're living in, so like the crypto like it's really cool when I get into the nerdy stuff and everything stuff is awesome. I get so upseted about that. I

[boona]:

yeah, yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

also just excited about. Like the ethos of the of the ro of the of what we're building. I get excited. you know, to talk to people like him, where where I, I see the passion and I see the. I'm reminded of the importance of what it is that we're building Um, on a on a on a bigger perspective about like it can be. It can really easy to get caught up and it's like, Oh, I flip this n f t and made this money and like and it's it's really great that happens. It's like huge healthy market activity and I, many respects's like. it's good for their demand. It's good that people are flooding in. Um, but there's a. There's a bigger perspective here that we also have to remember. And yeah, it makes me very bullish on people. It makes people wishh on humanity. It makes me bullsish on crypto. Um, and it makes me more it. It keeps me excited to work in the industry. right like the industry's fast. It. it moves fast. There's a lot of burn out that happens. It's crazy. The markets just move unlike any of the markets. Um, but you know when I feeling get burned at when I feeling burned out. I, you know the passion

[boona]:

yeah, yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

tends to get renewed on of hearir stories like that, and so yeah, but sort of that's sort of a little bit about why I I love the space so much.

[boona]:

yeah, I mean, and I'll and I'll tell you like I've um, very similar. I. I. I think jim. jimmy said it the best, which is what sparked a lot of like me. Just reaching out to a bunch of people start talking about N. m Ts. Even more is that, Um, I was watching a podcast where jimmy was on with Gary V, and he was like the best way he could describe it. Just specifically entities. You know, was that he's like you know. Think of. like En of T is like the the lost treasure and we are the goonies who just found the lost treasure. That's going to save the town. Except, instead of treasure, the tre, what the treasure represents is the imagination that we had as little kids of what this world could be, and it gave me it sit

[michael_tant]:

Oh interesting.

[boona]:

chills down my spine. I'm like Wow, This is like my, you know, 'cause I've always

[michael_tant]:

yeah,

[boona]:

inventioned in this like incredibly technological future. I've been really bullished on. like how technology can make an impact in people's lives. Like just a just a small story like, I kind of like people remember and I, and were literally kind of right on by the times. Airsbel would pass it. but you know like how people remember where they were on Nine eleven, like exactly what they were doing. what happened and like when they first heard that news. I felt the same

[michael_tant]:

yeah,

[boona]:

way about when Steve Jobs pulled the iphone out of his pocket. You know, like,

[michael_tant]:

dude.

[boona]:

yeah, yeah, yep, like,

[michael_tant]:

I, I feel the exact same feel, the exact same.

[boona]:

yeah, I was.

[michael_tant]:

I. I remember what happened. Our more an happened. I means we mind

[boona]:

Yeah, yeah, and I remember I'm goingnna pay five hundred fifty dollars for a for gigabyte no three g. No App store edge cellular iphone. You know, because in in on top of the re revolutionary technology, no one's a better presenter than Steve Jobs, and I'll die on that hill like Absolute,

[michael_tant]:

absolute King. I mean, yeah, yeah,

[boona]:

But yeah and and I think touching

[michael_tant]:

absolutely,

[boona]:

on we took a sze up there, but I want to touch on something that it relates to like when the passion dies out. Like hearing stories like this, How it democratizes acces across the entire world, Something that we. Actually, I think this whole podcast was built on this connection was around pseudonymous cultures, you know, aroundsyonymous investments, you know around this like idea of of pseudonymity,

[michael_tant]:

oh yeah,

[boona]:

and you know like the way I see this is that and I, actually, I can't remember what pockcas I listen to that you were on That really got me thinking you're like we all have we all, as humans will have natural biases that like, based on how we raised how we were like where we grew up. You know we all have natural biases as human beings, and what theseudonymous culture does or like when you' investing it en'ities You're investing in crypto. You're also investing in pseudonymouslash and on culture

[michael_tant]:

oh yeah, no, oh yeah, and I, I mean, And so

[boona]:

right, right,

[michael_tant]:

I'm not the best person. Talk about this honestly, I. I, I would say I'm I'm I'm qualified to talk about it the best person you need to go listen to on the rise of pseudo andonymity and the pseudonymous culture is biology, Bllogi, sreenyoss, one, thes, colaimed, early guys a coin base. Um, sort of biotech company, very much

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

a futurist technologist, Um, big on Twitter. You talks about pseudo enemy all the time, but yeah, no, I mean, I'm extremely busish on what pseudo anonymity is going to do from an economic activity perspective. Um, and you know, like there's so many. There's so many aspects of pseudo anonymity or orgistr of anymity that are that that were that give power back to individuals, where where the power was taken from the individuals in the first place. in my view, And so, when you, when you are, have a pseud, when you have a you know animic character as your profile picture online. Um, you know, there may be a

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

separate type of discrimination

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

that happens on a pseudonymous level, but there's there's there's far less there. there's there's a different. it's it's a. It's a very different animal, and I think pseudoononimmity helps solve many of the act specifically when it comes to economic discrimination that happens to people on the basis of race gender. you know, sexual orient, ation, um, age, uh, appearance. A lot of that stuff gets solved from an economic opportunity perspective in a pseudoonymity

[boona]:

hm.

[michael_tant]:

in a pseudoononymous culture, And that's where I think

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

Crimp has headed. At least a big part of it is and I, I think it. I think it's incredibly important to protect that. I think it' incredibly important to protect people that want to remain anonymous. Um, and like I've written checks to anonymous teams, I wrote a check, Anonymous team and it's we. I

[boona]:

that's yeah.

[michael_tant]:

founded it a fun anonymous scene this week And so like it's going to take a long

[boona]:

right

[michael_tant]:

time for people to get comfortable with that. It's going to take up because I, it's going to take. It's going to take a long time, but people are starting to warm up to it. It's starting to become normal. Some of my best friends are. Are you know anonymous or pseudoonymous on the Internet? And and it's part of it's just a cultural thing Like there are certain generations that are living right now That will just

[boona]:

right right.

[michael_tant]:

never be okay with that for the most part. And it it. It may take several generations for it to be totally comfortable. but it's abol. It's absolutely

[boona]:

yeah, Yeah, and mean one thing that the the question want to ask is you know, Cause

[michael_tant]:

go to happen.

[boona]:

you probably invested in in in people to where you know their identity. You know, like in. And so so when when looking? I guess

[michael_tant]:

Yeah,

[boona]:

the question half for is what's the like when you ask yourself questions? A like do I invest? How much do I invest? What are some of the questions that you ask yourself Like on a pseudonymous versus like, you know a completely transparent. Uh, you know, an an anonymous. you know team

[michael_tant]:

yeah, great question. I mean, it helps

[boona]:

gota

[michael_tant]:

when there is some sort of social referral, right. It helps when there's somebody that I know that you know. it. It helps when there's somebody that I know that vouchers. Um. That type of thing is reallylly huge. Um. it helps. I can. It helps and I can have a chat

[boona]:

Mhm,

[michael_tant]:

with those you know with with the team. It helps when I can and sort of build. even though they're anonymous or sueudonymous. It helps when I can construct a risk profile and understanding about them in the context of the pseudoanonymity. Um, and that you know that really does help, There's there's a lot of questions. Some of the questions are like, for example, if they're watching a dow, making sure that like the funds that I'm sending are in a multiig, right and like,

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

it's not like controlled by one person. And if there is other people that I do know and trust, Um, you know that that have an incentive to keep the funds secure. Like

[boona]:

Okay,

[michael_tant]:

that's an example of something that increases my comfortaability level in this type of pseudoonanimous investment. Um, uh, you know. Outside of that, I mean, it just depends on what' building honestly

[boona]:

Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

like there's There's probably a lot other questions I would as. but it's going to depend a lot of on what theyre buding who they're buding with and now

[boona]:

gotcha not me. And and what what I'm here? you say also and it ties into the It's

[michael_tant]:

they're building it.

[boona]:

It's wild how this' all webs together. but um, it ties to a lot. Like what I hear is a lot of social currency. You know. it's like it's like who these people are, and like some in in the social and the social reputation of people like you know, even tying back to fractional in and defy like I

[michael_tant]:

Yeah, yeah,

[boona]:

was one of the first investors in Uh Desa's uh, hoodi punk, Right and I, And and I actually put that as my p. f. p. And I've seen you know, and along with Wh, what's wild about that is like, even though I didn't fully owned the entire punk, there was still a weird S. and I say weird just because it was different, a different feeling I never felt before. It was almost like a sense of responsibility on putting that profile picture on my Twitter. Because like there's a culture aroundk, there's a social currency around ponk, And like when you see a punk you you, you immediately think trust, Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

well, yeah, you know it's point. oh. yeah. well, th' not so. I've trusted

[boona]:

it's insane.

[michael_tant]:

punk owners to do, not knowing who they are but knowing just because

[boona]:

Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

they' punk owner is easylysane like it's crazy. It really is crazy. There's like. I mean, I, you know. I, in fact, I used Ds, actually before, and this was like months ago. This is like four months ago, at least maybe five, and I use these as like an escro. And like you know, I sent him a hundred thousand dollar n f t you like,

[boona]:

right, he could of you.

[michael_tant]:

and like he, he could have just run off with it. What I'm saying, like any, and he totally didn't Because there is this like even even anonymous su in pseud, anonymous cultures, There's like this. There is a separate identity that you're building up and there's still social reputation attached. It's just a very different type and a very different kind. and if is really really compelling, it makes me it. It makes me biy into the fact that pseudo inonmities get like that. We're going to overcome the problems of associated with people

[boona]:

Yep, Yup,

[michael_tant]:

trusting Pseud anonymity. Because I can see it already happening on a small scale, and

[boona]:

Yep.

[michael_tant]:

there's like Okay, it's worked. We've seen it happen. it's done. it's going to continue to work.

[boona]:

Yep,

[michael_tant]:

Um, it's just a matter of time, but yeah, I mean, yeah, it's crazy. you're totally right. Like when you have a punk profile picture when you own a crypto punk. When you have that you know whatever it is like. it's not just punked's other other communities as well. There is a. It's

[boona]:

yeah, yeah, yeah.

[michael_tant]:

There's an itt factor associated with it and there's a. there's a. There's this sort of social credence that you get that. it's this base level of respect, Um, and it's impressive. It's really

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

really. It's reallyly fascinating to watch. It makes more excited for the future, makings more excited for the pseudo in anonymous future, Um, Yeah, and

[boona]:

yeah, and I think tying a bow on this all and before we start wrapping things up, Is

[michael_tant]:

it's awesome.

[boona]:

it like you know? that's I think one of the most on on top of all, of, like the cool smart contracts and Are and I in in, or I guess beneath all of that, Is it like one thing that I have really noticed or I've loved about the crypttic world is that to the outside world of people who aren't involved, Crypto currency just sounds shady. It just has. It doesn't have like crypto cryp, like it. It sounds very like

[michael_tant]:

Yeah.

[boona]:

like we're hiding something right. That's what. That's the feeling that I got at least when I first heard about it. But like when I, when I dove head first in the community. Is that like this actually incentivis people to do the right thing Like that's? like the thing that I,

[michael_tant]:

What? and there's

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

Bak and economic ex incentives right like there's it

[boona]:

Yeah, it it. it. just it,

[michael_tant]:

there. Yes, you're totally right. work market prices in. uh. yeah, yeah, exactly

[boona]:

the whole culture. it, just it. incentiviies. You do the right thing Because why? Because everything's public, you can track everything that happens. Could you go create another wallet?

[michael_tant]:

all the wallet movement. It's all the same ledger. Yeah, exactly

[boona]:

Yp, it's it's all the same thing. So it it it, You know, and to say that I've never had a disgenuous thought or like a selfish thought like that's completely. uh. That'd be a complete lie. you know, But what this does is this, and and there are always going to be some shady characters, but people are so less inseniveized to indulge that shadiness in this culture, then any web to web, one and pre web culture that I've ever been a part of.

[michael_tant]:

agree.

[boona]:

Yeah, and

[michael_tant]:

could not agree more. absolutely.

[boona]:

that to me is what is like. That's like the heartbeat of this because I've never met. I met the most genuine people. I've never even seen their face like I've never seen like.

[michael_tant]:

yeah. yeah, the wrong name. Yeah,

[boona]:

Yeah, absolutely man. but want to want to start wrapping things up man, you know, and

[michael_tant]:

yeahece, of Adce and is just related to anything. Is. Is this like crypto? yeahece, of Adce and is just related to anything. Is. Is this like crypto?

[boona]:

and just to just to give the audience like a a nugget to two on, you know, for people that are just getting involved, you know, uh, whether it's entities, whether it's def, whether it's crypto. You know if there, if there's anything that you learn, Co, kind of like right, whether it's either right from the beginning or O currentur experience that you' that you're having Like. What would be a piece of advice that you would share with them some alpha if you will.

[michael_tant]:

Generally? is it N f Ts. is it? is it anything I want? Generally? is it N f Ts. is it? is it anything I want?

[boona]:

Yeah, like whether it's a, whether it's a mantra, an experience. Uh, you know, a piece of advice like something that you like. One of the most valuable things that you've learned. I like to leave the door wide open. I don't want to pigeon hold you.

[michael_tant]:

Y. no. yeah, no, of course, uh, I mean, there's a couple of things The first one is like. Don't be afraid to bet on yourself is one of the biggest things that I would that I would that I would say, Um, It's crazy how fast the Ecrypto industry moves, and it's really really interesting to see the number of people that I that I that that I'm friends with in the industry that have ex that have experienced immense success financially, but also just personally. Um, you know, in the last

[boona]:

Mm,

[michael_tant]:

in the last two to three years, Um, because they bet on themselves, and and I'm not saying you should quit your job and you should still full time trading F ts, or or crypto or anything. Um, but what I would say is like I, I don't be F. Don't be afraid to put, like to put your neck out to stick your neck out to take, to take, to take some risks personally to spend some time learning It's

[boona]:

yeah,

[michael_tant]:

the. The space is so intimidating and so a lot of people just don't think. a lot of people just don't have the confidence in themselves to to sort of take whatever

[boona]:

y.

[michael_tant]:

extra leap they're scared to take in in terms of getting more involved. Maybe it's doing something like a podcast. You know, do uh, you know, working with some project doing some sort of community moderation work. whatever it is, Don't don't be afraid to bet on yourself that I, the. The, the number of people that I know that have been on themselves and truly only lost is is basically

[boona]:

right.

[michael_tant]:

is like, basically zero, right, like even the , Even the people that battle themselves and lost still learned enough about themselves that they turned it into a wind down the line, So don't be afraid to bet on yourself and then the theompaning, sort of like general life advice. What that is, Don't be afraid of. Don't be afraid of failure. Because The, the, The, The, the biggest most fundamental driving factor in people not betting on themselves is that they're worried that they're going to fail and that they're going to W. They inre word that it's going to be then that's going to fail. Um, so we're conquering that sort of fear of failure and and being willing to say, I'm going to do this to test myself to push myself to see if I can do this on my own, and I don't care if I fail, because if I fail its to learn an opportunity that's gonna. That's go to be the type of thing that takes you the farthest in the space. Like that's what, And, And not just in the space,

[boona]:

yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

but also in life in general. Um, but it, it itlies you. It applies most uniquely to the space because it's a terrifying one. It's so scary fact. The like you have to learn the horror storyage. you hear

[boona]:

yeah, yeah,

[michael_tant]:

about breaking into the community's weird. It's such an in group right now. And so I would say, Don't be afraid to fail. Uh, obviously, I'm not saying you'm not saying, go a hundred times long. leverage on, you know, Bitcn.

[boona]:

yeah.

[michael_tant]:

In with all your all your capital, I'm not saying you shouldn't be a degenerate gambler, and and, and in risk of blowing up your account, what I am saying is don't be afraid to take to to be on D. to take risks. A. And and don't left. the reason that you don't bet on yourself be because you're scaled scared of failing. Like that's the biggest thing. If there's another, there's

[boona]:

I like that,

[michael_tant]:

another reason. If if if if there's some of the reasons that's fine, don't let

[boona]:

Gotcha. No, I like that. Yeah, I mean be cause I like. I'm in a very fortunate

[michael_tant]:

that one be the reason. That's my advice.

[boona]:

position where you know like I love my dog to death and I would. I would go to any ends to like, make sure he's taken care of. But you know, the reality is that she costs maybe five hundred to a thousand dollars a year. you know, Um, it's not that big like there's not any other responsibility

[michael_tant]:

Yeah,

[boona]:

that I have besides paying my own bills. So you know, like if, especially if you're in a position like that like

[michael_tant]:

well, let's say if you're in a business like that where your

[boona]:

Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

repons' your big responsiblebility to your dog. And and you got to make Grant like there's never going to be. you're never going to

[boona]:

right, right,

[michael_tant]:

be less risk averse, Right like there's never going to be a To. There's there's never been a time where you can

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

afford to take on more risk than right

[boona]:

yp,

[michael_tant]:

now if you're in a similar position. And so what? Like Why

[boona]:

Yeah,

[michael_tant]:

not Goj. Just just do it like pu, pull a Nike and do it right Like it's it. It's your risk profile is only going to get more conservative from here Is is

[boona]:

rock on man'am Well, hey, Michael, uh, lasting where If if people want to follow you,

[michael_tant]:

sort of the the way I think about it.

[boona]:

Uh, people want get to know you a little better work than they find you.

[michael_tant]:

Yeah,

[boona]:

Yep,

[michael_tant]:

uh, Twitters. Twitters the best. Um, I mean,

[boona]:

Mhm.

[michael_tant]:

I'm sure you'll push length to my toter handle. It's at Michael Tant three, but with capital and capitality. Um, so it's just my name and then I am the third, so I'm Michael Edward Tant the third, So the three is just my on the third. Um, so yeah, that's my handle falling. my twitter. Uh, my, d. Ms. are always open if you are if you're building something and you need capital. Um, if you just want to connect, my dams are wide open. I look at lot of deals with color projects. I, a lot of checks. so Um, happen to take a look at any project that anyone that is a listener of your podcasts. building

[boona]:

Hell, yeah, man, and and if anyone who sees Michael's profile pictures probably arguably one of the biggest flexes I've ever seen.

[michael_tant]:

it is. it is a Been. It is a bit of Alex. Um, it, yeah, yeah, uh it it. I have the. I'm rocking on Twiter. I'm rocking the crypto punk foo, crypto punk fidza background, which is definitely it def. It definitely has a bit of a Fllex.

[boona]:

it's about the most flex you can put like in in a profile picture all at once.

[michael_tant]:

I've seen. I've seen some people that have like that have like made it even more complex and they have done like multiple and then

[boona]:

Oh wow.

[michael_tant]:

like Fidenza and Archetype backro and a an auto Walk background, And they have like the

[boona]:

Oh my god,

[michael_tant]:

Cool cat T, V, and in the T V is something there' are some people that like have like six

[boona]:

right,

[michael_tant]:

or seven or eight n F Ts, all in there, I. I probably will never get more

[boona]:

yeah, I mean it's's a. that's a pretty smooth, Beth, though that's a. That's a pretty

[michael_tant]:

complex than than two.

[boona]:

good one to ha. like a pretty good combo to have that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely

[michael_tant]:

Uh, Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. I. I. the. I'm ready for the Fidenza piece to get to my house. It's it. I had

[boona]:

sick,

[michael_tant]:

it signed by Tiyler Hobs. It's done. it's It's on root so I can't wait to hang

[boona]:

Hallya, man, hey, Michael. it's been an absolute treat. Um, we got. We're definitely

[michael_tant]:

it up

[boona]:

going to be doing one of these again. I, I just got. I got a feeling y.

[michael_tant]:

good. Oh, look any time, man, and in K, the the?

[boona]:

y.

[michael_tant]:

like, the pleasure pleasures. all mine. truly, I love talking about the stuff. I

[boona]:

yep.

[michael_tant]:

love talking to people that are excited about the space. I, I mean it. Yeah, I'm a talker. I'm an extravert. I like talking to people, Um, and

[boona]:

Yep.

[michael_tant]:

and I like talking about. So I'm passionate about and crypto. I, yeah, it's It's one of the things I'm most passionate about in the world, So thank you so much for the pleasure of being able to come on the podcast, and um and hang out and chat.

[boona]:

absolutely man. Hey, you have a great reer, my friend, right?

[michael_tant]:

Thank you you as well.

Michael Tant

Guest

Co-founder/General Partner @CitizenXcrypto