Edward  Cleland is the Founder of Mind Body Medicine of Michigan, LLC

Founder of Planted Superfood Bar www.plantedSFB.com

Mind Body Medicine Practitioner, Functional Nutritionist, 

Elite Athlete, Professional Esports, and Executive Performance Specialist,

Mindfulness & Meditation Teacher.

We discuss the impact that wellness has on Esports athletes, break down the science of his holistic approach to helping Esports athletes become their best selves.

Support the show (https://paypal.me/boonafidegaming)

Boona Signature

Transcript

Kyle Warren:

Good morning, and welcome to the bonafide experience podcast. I'm your host, Kyle. Really everyone just calls me buena. This is an Esports podcast that brings on talent from across the industry to be the spark that fuels passionate gamers to change the world. If you're new here or returning, please consider subscribing or following on your platform of choice. Doing so allows you to support my dream. It allows you to stay up to date with the current episode, and get this content into the hands or ears of gamers that need to hear it. Thank you so much for being here. And let's go ahead and get started with the show. Right, good afternoon, Edward. How are you?

Edward Cleland:

Doing great. How are you?

Kyle Warren:

I'm doing fantastic. We are I think we may be competing with with you wherever we're wherever you're living, because it is about 26 degrees here in Austin, Texas.

Edward Cleland:

Good luck. We're under 20 all the time here in Metro Detroit.

Kyle Warren:

It was worth a shot. It was worth a shot.

Edward Cleland:

Cool. Well, it's a bigger, it's a bigger difference for you right now. We're certainly used to it. I have a good friend in Houston, who said they're shutting down the entire city this week for the weather that's coming. So

Kyle Warren:

Yes

Edward Cleland:

You know, our perceptions are reality

Kyle Warren:

they are and I'll say I used to I have had a different perception because I grew up in Houston, actually. And you know, number one, our roads aren't built for it. But number two, it's just not taught and drivers-ed that it doesn't happen often to where when this happens, people also have a sense of panic whenever it does happen. And poor decisions are made, as you saw on the I-35 freeway in Dallas. That was just horrific event. But yeah, I got to experience driving in some of that weather in Colorado. I lived there for two years. And it was it was an experience. I must admit.

Edward Cleland:

We get used to it here. We we don't really change how we drive even a few feet of snow.

Kyle Warren:

Awesome, man. Well, I had to I had to take a shot I had to at least try. So welcome. Welcome onto the show. This is a bonafide experience podcast. And you know, for those who who do not know you, who are you? And what do you do?

Edward Cleland:

Well, thank you for having me. My name is Edward Cleeland. I am a mind-body medicine practitioner. And I work in professional eSports as what they call me is a performance specialist. So I help individual players teams and to a lesser degree, the org work with their health and wellness, the body, the mind, the team environment, and the individual aspect.

Kyle Warren:

Gotcha. Thank you, thank you, that's a that's, that's a lot to unpack there. You know, I must admit, when I was doing some of my homework, you know, on your website, and what you do and how you how you do things like on your methodology, there's, there's four pillars, you know, you have, you have the mind, you have the movement, you know, you have I have to cheat a little bit here, you have nutrition and you have lifestyle, you know, and I'm curious, you know, this is a it seems like a very holistic approach compared to the general, you know, one, one train of thought, like a lot of people focus on one of these. What, what got you interested in this, like, what's your, what's your fascination with this?

Edward Cleland:

I love that you use the word holistic. My background is in holistic health education. And we use the word holistic or wholeism to really be applied in a sense of meeting the person where they are, and working from that perspective. So my methodology isn't so much of a program that I'm bringing, but it is holistic, where we are meeting that client where they are, and helping them move towards their goals in the way that's best suited for them. As you mentioned, this does involve the mind, the body, nutrition, your lifestyle, your rituals, how you communicate with people, as I like to tell the players everything you think, do, feel, every one of those perceptions is going to make you a better or, you know, less effective teammate and player.

Kyle Warren:

I, you know, and I and I think I saw that tweet of yours. It was something very similar to that they had mentioned in that that jives a lot with with a lot of my personal philosophies and how I try it how I choose to present myself you know, but

Edward Cleland:

Too calm

Kyle Warren:

Yeah, too calm. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, if you don't want to ask like what what peaked your curiosity you know, I know you're working towards your, you know, you've gone to school you're working towards PhD Like what? What got you into this? I'm just and then we'll dive into some more specific topics.

Edward Cleland:

Sure, You know, my mother probably won't love to hear this. But I joke sometimes when I lecture that no one became a nutritionist, because they grew up on a healthy diet. My my own venture did lead me to health and wellness, you know, when, when I was in my very early 20s, I just finished my second knee operation, I like to consider myself an athlete in my former life, if you will. And some injuries kind of put that to rest early on. But you know, I didn't have a particularly healthy diet, or to a lesser degree, maybe but lifestyle in my youth, and being 20 years old, and not happy with the weight that I was at, or the pain level that I was at, and unable to play hockey with friends or baseball, or I knew some things needed to change, I became a vegetarian, my now wife and I moved to California together, this is a long time ago now. But we moved to California from Michigan, and really changed everything about my lifestyle and what I was doing, that led me into the new career that led me into grad school, post grad school and private practice. But you know, it really started is that and I didn't connect that food was important or part of medicine. You know, probably at all until I was, you know, like 18 to 20. You know, it just hadn't really been a consideration. I had always probably wanted my body to be something different or to be a better athlete. But you know, moving to California, well, I will walk you through the whole story. But moving to California and getting into the health and wellness industry and working on organics, you know that that started the snowball.

Kyle Warren:

Gotcha. No, I there's always some sort of, I mean, people don't just wake up and want to do this. You're right. And I and I love that you mentioned that kind of, like my background, I didn't wake up and, you know, want to be recovered [drug addict]. I just didn't want to, like choose to do some of the life lifestyle choices that I made, you know, but it was,

Edward Cleland:

well, and how much do not to dive us into the cosmos right away. But how much of this are we choosing anyway? You know, if, if we really ask ourselves when when you know, we were born or to who or most clients that I've met, that are religious happen to be the religion of their parents, you know, so it's a lot of these things are environmentally directed, at least, we don't get around our DNA, I didn't choose this hairstyle, it chose me kind of thing. You know, there's a lot of this that we're just trying to accept.

Kyle Warren:

I think we could probably do an entire podcast on just that topic alone. So we'll keep that at bay for right now. Because I that's, that's a fascinating topic for me. You know, so I got to know as well, you know, these these pillars, you know, number one, they apply to a lot of a lot of our daily lives. Why eSports over regular sports.

Edward Cleland:

Well, I started off in regular sports. I don't have a gaming background that my gamers would be proud of, you know, I played on a controller and played Madden and stuff like that. And I remember getting Nintendo as a kid and I put in all my hours on all those games, but you know, they joke with me to play valorant or CS or league, and I just say no, you know, luckily, I don't need to to help you today. You know. But, you know,

Unknown:

it began in professional athletics. And what I noticed was I was helping on the margins, I was, I was a functional nutritionist for Olympic runners. And for, you know, some the Hansen's team, particularly here in Michigan, which is a Brooks project, and worked with a number of other professional athletes in the major pro sports as well, but not for a specific team, just PR players. And what I really discovered is that I was moving them marginally. You know, if the rating I used one time with one of my 10k'ers that was trying out for the US Olympics. He said, You move to me from 96% to 97% in my wellness, and that made all the difference. And we were talking about and I'm a runner myself, we were talking about trying to improve him a second per mile. You know, to some people, these are really small things, to him that was a very big deal. And we did it through addressing inflammation, which is one of the pillars of within my nutrition practices is combating inflammation. So it was pretty simple in some ways. But you know, I received a fortuitous phone call one time from the Renegades management and they had just some questions for me about who I was based on my Yelp and other things. In talking with them, what I discovered quickly was the margins were a lot bigger when we were talking about health and wellness. And this isn't to you know, Judge or objectify the journey to professional eSports, but it's very different than the journey to professional athletics

Kyle Warren:

100%

Edward Cleland:

You know, in quickly recognizing that we saw that there were some big gaps You know that if we put some effort into we received tremendous, you know, outcomes from and so that's what we started doing, you know, four to five years ago.

Kyle Warren:

And I'm a swimmer. So small percentages are what I am used to, I swam for 10 years, you know, so those .5 second drops in time those .2 second drops in time like those, that is an incredible deal. Because as we are talking about the Olympics at that, at that level, I mean, some of those, you know, between first and eighth place is under one second. And in those little details matter,

Edward Cleland:

super small margins. Yeah. Hand positioning, breathing technique, what is the person thinking while they're swimming? Certainly, you know, there's many, many variables,

Kyle Warren:

well, should you think at? All right?

Edward Cleland:

Well, there's some, you know, if I have an entry, fragger, and CS that says, hey, you know, let's not overthink this thing, let's, let's go in there and shoot people. You know, I'm not going to try to give him a different philosophy off of that, you know, that simplicity is key. But But once the veil of ignorance is removed, you can't re-cloak yourself with it. So what once you know, something exists, good luck hiding it from your mind.

Kyle Warren:

And I struggle with that a lot. Sometimes, sometimes, like, I love the journey that I'm that I'm living right now. But sometimes I do wish I could live in that state of ignorance just a little bit longer.

Edward Cleland:

I I've had a player I've worked with for a long time that I remind him frequently, you know, he'll say, you know, some of the effect of I just wish I didn't know, this, I just wish I didn't know is true. And he's one of the best in his game, you know, rated objectively one of the best in this game, but I'll say that to him frequently that, you know, you don't get to forget this now. Now that you know, you have a duty a responsibility to actually face it and work with it.

Kyle Warren:

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah, I absolutely love that. My friend said the same thing in a different phrase. Like, once you know what, you can't unknow it, you know. So I love that. So one thing that I one thing I really enjoy is like, you know, you meet people where you're at, and I think that's something that I practice in my day to day job, you know, I was previously a business coach, you know, for, you know, for LegalZoom. And so it's not every business owner has the same goals. Not every business owner, you know, has ran multiple, but most of them haven't ran any businesses before. So how do we tailor this service to them? And I think that's what made that special, which is why I love what you're doing here. One of the things I want to ask you is like, you know, when it comes to, like a player in CS versus a player in Valorant, you know, is there any distinct kind of character? Is there any type of like, shift that you have to make? Or is there are there some key differences that you have to remind yourself of?

Edward Cleland:

Well, I think it's interesting, you choose CS and Valorant. Because I'd say they're probably closer related than many of the other games. Nitr0 is a good example, I work closely with Nick, and you know, and Spencer (Hiko) and Josh (steel) as well, with our CS back, even Peter (Asuna) had a CS background. So I would say there's a lot of similarities in that, you know, even you know, you're talking five, man, you're talking about rituals, timing of day, you know, you have to win to last round, excuse this, that's going to happen every time that I'm gentle (mic interference). You know, you went a couple less rounds, perhaps. But no, there's a tremendous amount of overlap, especially talking about the mental aspects of this. No, I I'd say they're very similar. Especially those two games, I certainly point out more gaps, and maybe, you know, Fortnite and certainly League, League feels like it's a completely different animal.

Kyle Warren:

I feel I feel that too. And I find myself really trying to grasp Lague and understand League. And I think there's, there's just so many nuances to it. And so, for someone that, you know, you mentioned earlier, like your gaming backgrounds, like, you know, this, you know, growing up playing Madden on split screen, you know, when it comes to your profession, and you not know, like, Is there a certain level of knowledge required of the game for you to excel at your job? Or is it completely irrelevant?

Edward Cleland:

Well, I don't think I'd call it completely irrelevant. I would say everything has pros and cons, I can see a scenario where, you know, being a former gamer or something actually might be quite the con for for someone as well, based on their own experience, and maybe having a tough time removing that bias, as we'd call it and research. But it to a degree would be helpful. I don't I don't want to say that I feel like it's a detriment to my job. I've never felt like it's been a detriment whatsoever. I would say I had a easier time understanding in onboarding the game of CS than I did league. Gotcha. You know, that that was easier for me to grasp as someone who you know, grew up playing, you know, James Bond and all those type of games, right, that was pretty it not that I'm gonna go toe to toe with a coach in any of the strategic concepts. But certainly the idea of the game where League is so nuanced, and there's so many, you know, champions and there's so much involved. But, you know, I'm thankful that we are I've been surrounded with staff that I don't feel like I've ever needed to know those things. And the player sometimes joke with me, but I mean, they even joke because I'm old, they'll ask me if I know what a meme is. I mean, you know, so it's to that point. Yeah, I really don't feel like it's a detriment whatsoever. And I don't know, I've never had a conversation with a player where where they ever said something effective well, if you knew the game better, gotcha. Or, you know, you'd understand it better if you played or something that's never been. That's I've never sensed that to be an issue

Kyle Warren:

Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. And that's, yeah, no, I appreciate you sharing that. So, you know, I know, you travel a lot, you know, between, you know, travel a lot, especially these days and during COVID is probably presented a lot of challenges. You know, when it comes to you, you know, one thing I guess, I'm trying to figure out a word that's like, you work on these individuals on an individual basis. But yet, you also met, or you also coach the team as well. You know, how does the individual performance affect, like the overall like, how do you manage the different goals of the teams versus the manager, like managing the players goals?

Edward Cleland:

So first off, they better align when we're talking about goals, right? Ideally, if you have a five man roster, that five man rosters, individual gaming goals align quite closely with the collective goals. But you know, part of the methodology here is that you're addressing the individual, there's really four categories, this is my dissertation, there's really four categories of this, the book will be this in discussing this one that I'm working on. But there's really four areas that you have to focus on, you have to focus on the individual away from the game. So Kyle away from, you know, the screen, you know, and then the player within the team setting. So what is the player then bringing, as an individual to the group? So you have an I internal and an I external? Yep. And then you have a We internal, that's the team together, that's without worrying about Twitter or, you know, Twitch chat rooms, or yourself?

Kyle Warren:

No, yeah, absolutely.

Unknown:

You know, or me, quite frankly, oftentimes. And then you have the team and the external. And so that will also 100 Thieves is a great example. We have to be cognizant at 100 Thieves that we have a large community and they have expectations and desires, right? But if Papa Smithy was standing there all day, saying, you know, Win win win, and John, if John came walking in the room all day saying just focus on winning, right? And john wants that dub? I know he does. And there's nothing better than delivering the dubs for these guys.

Kyle Warren:

And john, john wants to sell the most hoodies, as we saw in that Call of Duty clip.

Edward Cleland:

Yeah, that may be true, too. He wants it all. He is a good leader. He wants it all. You know, but to the point, that can't be the focal point. And I understand that is an org, in organizations such as 100, Thieves is going to be very cognizant of what that externalism means to them. But that's not how you go and get the goal that you want. I mean, you don't climb the mountain just by looking at the outside world and asking them what they think of your adventure, you know, so I really do break it down into those four quadrants. That's me building upon my graduate thesis that I wrote in athletics that was taking off the work of Ken Wilber. And I was developing an integrated model to take to US runners to take two Olympic runners. But I found it to be much more applicable to eSports. I mean, it's incredibly applicable to eSports I, I can't imagine in Oregon I'm not trying to say like, Hey, you know, by by an infomercial, but I can't imagine an org, that wouldn't say those four areas because there's no team, even with the best talent, if they if they don't feel good about themselves away from the game, they're not going to be successful. You have to look at all four of these areas.

Kyle Warren:

I, I 100% agree with that. And I think that one thing that fascinates me about the specific area that you're in, or the the role that you play in this organization is, you know, eSports is still so very brand new. I mean, even though there's a lot of traction, there's a lot of momentum, it's one of the fastest growing industries, you know, in the in the country, it's still I find that the problem, there's probably companies are scrambling to find to find out how to make these teams profitable. And if winning isn't like the main thing, sponsorships aren't going to come, money isn't going to come they can't pay people they can't have you know, I mean, to be honest, like people like yourself to really dive into these things and so i i think that's really cool that you are kind of like the pioneer in that and so you know, I guess the question is like

Edward Cleland:

I I take great, if you don't mind me diving in here for a second. First off, I take great pride in that as well. And I think the industry as practitioners that are trying to support this market need need to do it in a holistic manner in an integrative manner. You know, my background, I'm, I'm a bit of the Swiss Army Knife which I think gives me an incredible advantage. I've been a functional nutritionist for 15 years, I've been in mental health for pro athletes for eight, nine years now. You know, so that gives me an advantage. But at the same time, I think what we're seeing is when I work with a pro sports team, like if I connect with one of the four majors here in Detroit, you know, the Lions, Tigers, Pistons, Redwings, what you see is they have a physical therapist on staff, they have a registered dietician, or some form of functional nutritionist on staff, they have an MD, they have a mental health specialist, they have a performance specialist that's just working on the physiological body, you know, trainers, power lifters cardio specialist. I don't know that eSports will get to the point soon that it'll justify that categorically across the board, where you'll see every single team have every one of those categories. This is going to be a unique model. This is this is not going to be a standardized model in the next handful of years. So I think it'll be really important that and I you know, not I'm not trying to sound like I'm boasting here, but it'll be important that you have someone such as myself that has an understanding of the range of these things that we need to address. Because unfortunately, if you're too limited in your modality, you won't get the the the worth of it, it's not going to be worth I don't think the orgs will pay for having six versions of me on the staff.

Kyle Warren:

Exactly. And,you know, I think a lot of that just comes down to the people who are running this and what they and what they value. It's like if they value the wellness of their people if they want if they want to, like help these people grow, and probably not just even on the team, but as as a whole, like,

Edward Cleland:

it's the smartest humans.

Kyle Warren:

Yeah, yeah, as humans, like, isn't that what it's all about? You know, like, I and that's in the second thing you brought up is that, you know, you don't think that eSports, at least in our time will ever get to having those specific individualized roles. And that scratches on another topic of like, you know, where does eSports fit? I personally want it to be as large as regular sports. But what does that even mean? You know, I'm all in, Yeah, I mean, I'm all in it. I believe that's heading there. You know, even we set aside the COVID topic, Right.

Edward Cleland:

In this in-person topic, which of course affected our games as well, right? I mean, they affected our ability to have events. But even if we go ahead and say that, no, I just think the numbers in the future generations and, and their attention spans. I'm a baseball lover. I mean, I collect baseball cards, I'm an old school cat, I love history of baseball, and you know, but when I talk to the younger generation, and kind of say, Hey, would you sit there for four hours,

Kyle Warren:

right

Edward Cleland:

You know, watch this pitching duel in this chess match and unfold. And Wow, did you see what just happened this ad, I don't care about it. Even my seven year old you know, I take him to the Tigers game and he wants to go see the carousel and you know, go go see the mascots and stuff and, and he's kind of a nature kid. I'm not raising him on screens. We like live in the woods. You know, the irony, though? Yeah. Now that I'm in this profession, and have been for so long, he doesn't know me doing anything else. And now he wants to, you know, watch and play and all this to now.

Kyle Warren:

I think that's fair. Yeah, it's, I think it's fantastic. I mean, cuz Yeah, I, I'm a basketball guy, you know, but I do feel that sports is, you know, in a weird way, COVID, even though even though it's restricted eSports I feel like it's actually what accelerated eSports because we could still thrive, at full capacity, you know, granted, you know, I can see the all the experience may not be as well, but we're still able to thrive.

Edward Cleland:

It's a strange thing, though, to say thrive. I mean, what percentage of the players experience burnout this year?

Kyle Warren:

mmm

Edward Cleland:

I mean, look at the best teams. And I have no affiliation with like an astrologist, but I've studied them closely and talk to people that were on the roster at one point, you know, but I don't work with them in any capacity. And you're seeing some of the best players on Earth. It's, like, just come out bluntly. I mean, we're seeing content creators, we're seeing gamers across all different games. So I think the industry has, I don't want to say something, like taken advantage of them. And I'm certainly not saying that the orgs that I work with are doing that they're putting me in a position to help these young men.

Kyle Warren:

Right.

Edward Cleland:

Right. So certainly, I think they're, they're really taking a role in that and, and for the record, when you look at the the management teams of these orgs that are bringing on guys like me, or others look at what they're doing in their lives. I mean, that the CFO at 100 Thieves is texting me about half marathon training program I mean, and he's like the most CFO you're gonna find like he's not there rah rah ring us up and wanting to you know, spend all our time on you know, team build, he wants to get in the the nitty gritty, but you know, all of them are really passionate about wellness. It's really, the industry is going to catch up to that. I also think we're, we're gonna find out that these players when they feel good, and they're healthy, those are the teams that are sustaining and you can't sustain even at like the level of Astralis was doing it. If you're not focused on health and wellness, you can't sustain it even as the number one team. That's the part that's most alarming to me that you usually don't hear about it from the winners. You know, you usually hear about only from people and you ask anybody in gaming, I was really stressed What happened? Well, we started winning, so I'm less stressed. OK...

Kyle Warren:

Yeah

Edward Cleland:

You know, like, yeah, I hear that frequently. Well, Edward, it feels a lot better. We were, you know, 6-0, in the tournament, it's tough to be annoyed.

Kyle Warren:

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's, I mean, but the way I look at it is like, you know, the having that winning mentality honestly puts a lot more pressure on, because I look at, you know, back in the Optic vision days, you know, when, when they were at the top of their game and Call of Duty, like, when, when you're at that peak, like, all of a sudden, everyone wants you to fall, you know, everyone wants you to not succeed anymore. Now that you've reached that top point. Well, I mean, look at Ninja, for example, as a content creator. And one of his podcasts he had mentioned, he's like, even right before the point where I really blew up, there were so many people that wanted my success, and they wanted me to succeed. And they they fought for my success. But once he got to that point, everyone's analyzing every word he says, and trying to tear him down completely off his, where he's put himself, you know, so

Edward Cleland:

While comparing ourselves gets us in a lot of trouble.

Kyle Warren:

it does

Edward Cleland:

You know, when people start comparing themselves to you, and the target on the back of something, our Valorant team has had a really deep dive here recently, right? We came out bullish last year and did what we needed to do. And someone certainly like Josh, who I love working with, he's not afraid to say something publicly that might put even a bigger target or people to be more interested in, coming after him. But you know, you have to embrace it, you have to embrace where you are, and take that all on, we don't want to hide from him pretend that you're not, you know, like, there isn't a ton of kids at home right now not wanting every one of these guys jobs, right. You know, they're all grinding for I'm getting phone calls now left and right, from people that live in my community that are telling me things like, I have a 13 year old that I think it'd be a call of duty legend someday, you know, how much is your hourly to work with my 13 year old? And I'm like, that's not a phone call I had three years ago, and that it does not I don't think it's reflective as my growth as much as the industry's growth that, you know, parents are now not telling their kids get off that damn machine, right? They're saying, this is a college scholarship waiting to happen, right? I mean, it's the industry is growing, it's gonna change, it's going to evolve.

Kyle Warren:

And that's where my parents came from, you know, that's, that's, and that's what sparked my passion for doing something like this. is in hopes of like, it's like, at least this specific form of content, where it's like, if someone can look and find some inspiration from the guests I bring on and just show them many different avenues that this career path actually has now. I've done my job, you know,

Edward Cleland:

and also, there's only a handful, right? Right. Like, you know, we talk about, I'll have a lot of the youth call me up and say, "Hey, you know, I'm an undergrad for kinesiology or sports psych or something, and how did you get to where you are?" And I almost just feel like tellin 'em, "Oh, Kyle, if you try to do what I just did, it's gonna be a bumpy road, my friend, you know, it's 15 years of sacrifice and a lot of luck in accidents." You know, so, I don't know, it's gonna be tricky. You know, I recently was asked to come guest lecturer at a university that has an Esports. program, you know, and it's like teaching how to teach you how to be an Esports professional, you know, not not a gamer, but an actual professional. And I think if I walked around 100 Thieves and asked everybody, did you go to school to be an Esports Professional? They look at me like, I'm nuts.

Kyle Warren:

Yeah.

Edward Cleland:

You know, so. And they're doing quite damn well, you know, it's, it's kind of, it's interesting to see where, where will this go when we apply academia and structure and when the parents aren't telling you not to do it? And you know, when when you have as much gray in your beard as I do you know, what the hell are we going to be hearing from these kids?

Kyle Warren:

I'm trying to let you know, I'm trying to do everything I can to prevent that and we're and I'll be honest

Edward Cleland:

you don't need to embrace it, just embrace it. with you, Who cares? My wife buys me a different hemp oil every few months and says here, put this one and you'll like this and who cares? What difference does it make?

Kyle Warren:

I won't. I don't I don't I'm not sponsored or affiliated with them with any any way. But I'm a big fan of beard brand. They're actually local here at Austin, Texas. And they just, you know, everyone asked me like, what, what do you do? I'm just like, Well, part of it's probably good genes, but you know, you know, I have like 18 different beard products.

Edward Cleland:

Well, you look like a man that's using some product I try. Trust me, this is just this is all natural.

Kyle Warren:

I like it. I like it, man. You know, so one thing that I'm a part of a one thing that I joined earlier this year was this program called Enlight, you know, Enlight.GG and it's I can't remember I have such a hard time pronouncing your name but it's a Eunice or Eunice or Eunice . I can't remember her name is she's probably gonna roast me for this when she watches it. But it's a it's like a it's a monthly program. Where she brings on people from the industry such as like Ariel horn, and Jacob Wolf, you know, and you know, and can't remember the head of Twitter gaming, but like that she brings in some big names to like, really showcase and dive deep into the industry that they've currently built and like, where they're at, and how to dive into this. Because something that I struggled with him really why I started creating content was that there's this mystical door of Esports that you just, there's, you got to like, find your way how to open it. And I think a lot of people struggle. And so they bring on their experience to say like, hey, look like I started in TV production. Or I started in this, and I started in that and you kind of just like, trip and fall your way into it, you know, is what I've gathered from it like Jacob one thing I really liked about Jacob is that he said, my beat found me, right.

Edward Cleland:

And that's how I feel about this. I really do. And some of the people that I was working with right then specifically the the boys from the Renegades CS roster, you know, I have them to thank if they didn't buy in, and if they weren't willing to listen and wanting to improve themselves, you know, that's top to bottom for that Oregon. And then once you're in you have to earn you know, I have 12 staff members here we work with and you know, once you're in, you just earn your keep, right and you do great work and you show that you're willing to self-sacrifice and that you're talented and you know you earn it. But yeah, I get it getting a foot in the door. I know for a fact just because Jacob "tuff" Anderson here over 100 Thieves is so so transparent with me. I know, we've got a lot of versions out there of me knocking on our door saying, Hey, you know, hire me. You don't need Edward, I can do this version of this for you. And you know, if if you don't have good people around you who believe in you and are you know, I even talked with Papa Smithy about that recently, you know, if we don't have people around each other that we can't just continue to trust, then. You know, then we can't do the good work. You know, you can't be worried about that and do the good work. You have to free yourself up. But yeah, that the path there I made good luck for for these

Kyle Warren:

For sure. And I it's a Yeah, this is a this is a youngsters that that are on this path. And I don't want to make it sound like I just tripped into this. If you interviewed, you know, the 1000s of clients that I've talked to over the last 15 years, I think you'd see I'd have a pretty good rating. So I you know, grew you grow into it. Right. But yeah, really, really, there's no textbook on this. Yeah. You know, and until every team has a standard operating practice here, where they have that staffer, you know, I saw Dignitas recently, somebody I follow on Twitter, you know, put up a post for an internship and somebody roasted them over it not being paid. Things are unique in this industry, you know, and as a business owner, I've got a youngster down the street here at the local university that I've talked to you about non paid internships because he's bending over backwards wanting to be a part of my you know, Mind Body Medicine org here. Yeah, it's tricky to get in there, there's people that are willing to make huge sacrifices. Yeah, just to get an opportunity. You know, and other people are saying, No, I gotta make this hourly rate or, you know, it's tough to know what the motivated motivation is there. very large it's it to me, it's a large topic. And I kind of going back what we talked about earlier, I really don't believe in any accidents. I don't believe I honestly don't believe in luck. Like I believe that whatever my intention is, if I'm honestly working towards that, then those right opportunities are gonna come and like I'm gonna say the right thing at the right time.

Edward Cleland:

There are a fellow Hindu with me the the karma, man,

Kyle Warren:

yeah.

Edward Cleland:

If you put it out there, you don't have to worry about it. Just keep putting it out there and it'll come back and don't don't try to sell somebody your services, go do the work and show them what you can do. And they'll come knocking. I mean, that's certainly that's been my experience through and through.

Kyle Warren:

Yeah

Edward Cleland:

You know, I didn't have to sell myself once yet. I haven't had to interview yet.

Kyle Warren:

Right. Right. It's, it's, it's a it's a funny thing, but I think trying to teach that to people. You know, number one, there's more than one year there's more than one way to skin a cat. It's not probably the only way to like, it's just

Edward Cleland:

not my favorite expression as a vegetarian, but I understand. Yeah.

Kyle Warren:

Sorry about that, yeah, I mean,

Edward Cleland:

Got to keep it a little fun here. You know, people think I'm too boring or something as a mental health guy

Kyle Warren:

Yeah, a little bit, man. You know, we gotta we gotta spice it up a little bit. You know, but when it comes to, yeah, that's just been my experience. So you mentioned like, you've got you dove into some of the process of like, or your methodology when it comes to the mind, you know, so I'm what I'm really interested, you know, I mean, this is a bigger topic, but what is your like methodology in assessing someone's lifestyle and like understanding their needs and how to coach them towards their goals, there?

Edward Cleland:

Step one, learning of who they are. This isn't again, there's nothing cookie cutter here. And we create systems that offer people tremendous structure, so that if they didn't have it, perhaps they would have to almost You know, mess it up to not stay in line. You know, in terms of their mental practices and what we're going to work on, everyone has a different background, you know, and I'm not I'm not here to be, in if anyone listens to this that happens to be working with me as an employer, they'll appreciate this. I'm not I'm not here to unpackage their their trauma from 0 to 18. Right? That's, honestly, that's not what I'm here for.

Kyle Warren:

Right.

Edward Cleland:

You know, and if something comes up that we need to talk about, that seems like it's really impacting their work. I certainly am there to meet them where they are. But that's not for me, I would almost rather refer them out if that's something that there's trauma or something. So really, I consider myself an optimizationalist, which I'm not sure if that's actually a word, but it should be.

Kyle Warren:

It is now.

Edward Cleland:

I like it. Yeah, it's so we're looking to take people where they are right now. And help them identify ways to, as you just said, move closer to their goals. So is there a one meets all? No. You know, I'm pulling from every text I've ever read, I'm pulling from Ram Dass and Buddhist psychology, American psychology. I mean, you name it, it's, it's, it's all in there, you're getting it all. But but it always stems back to meeting them where they are, and you want to make sure that their their needs are taken care of, you know, and maybe in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs type sense, you want to make sure that their needs are being met. But most of these guys needs are being met, they're getting paid money, and they got a nice apartment and life is good. Yeah, you know. So really, it's helping them understand that that talking voice they have in their head, and how to navigate that, that self narrative.

Kyle Warren:

Yeah, and something that you touched on that I find that it's, you know, as an alcoholic, and a recovered alcoholic, and a drug addict, you know, like, the topic of like, having a mostly basic needs met, like with having like an apartment and a good lifestyle. You know, I've seen a lot of people, you know, name just to name a few people I look up to, like Robin Williams, and like, lead singer of Audioslave, Chris Cornell, you know, like, they had everything they ever wanted, but they weren't happy. You know what I mean?

Edward Cleland:

Well, so they didn't really have everything they ever want.

Kyle Warren:

Right.

Edward Cleland:

And I don't say that with judge. Right. Right. We oftentimes talk about money, as the first thing is, if is if having money changes, these things I've met with, you know, people that are incredibly wealthy, you know, that I know, are worth more than $50 million. And they still have digestive issues and cancer. And, you know, I, one of the clients, I had to say goodbye to a few years ago, owned a telecommunications company, one of the wealthiest men ever know, he owned over 100 nice cars. I mean, he had incredible wealth, paintings, all kinds of stuff. That didn't matter to him when he was dying of colon cancer.

Kyle Warren:

Right.

Edward Cleland:

You know, and I don't know, he has gentlemen had so much gout that he couldn't, you know, couldn't have a whiskey with his friends on his deathbed. You know, I mean, so these things, you know, I'll often times tell a client that that maybe spent their health early in their life to accumulate wealth, that that pendulum swings back and you may find yourself spending your wealth to re accumulate what you can have your health, and that's probably stolen from Gandhi, somewhere along the line there. But, you know, don't don't spend today to earn something that you're you're going to have to spend later to try to get something back. I guess and and we see that you know, and and kudos to you for talking about the kudos is too weak of a word, I'm proud of us to be able to say, you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic. And these are the way that I kind of process this and it's a daily practice, right, it's a daily, minute to minute practice of having systems in place in allowing yourself. I work with, I've worked with many alcoholics and we talk about allowing themselves to to experience this you know, allowing yourself to be proud of yourself allowing something to mean something. We're too busy gripping onto our unworthiness, that one's Ram Dass stolen so that I get the credit, where it's due, you know, and it changes once you once you stop holding yourself hostage in stop putting all these barriers in front of yourself, boy, the game starts changing for you.

Kyle Warren:

It really does. And Edward I you bring up a great point. Thank you for that. Thank you for that, for that for those words. And because I'll tell you something that I've really struggled with and something that like, my therapist has to remind me of whenever we have Sessions is like, just remember for this hour, we're just gonna act like shame doesn't exist, you know, we're gonna act like shame doesn't exist and I think you bring up a really there's a really good parallel to that when it comes to you know, like allowing ourselves to just let go of that and when when we start dissolving these walls the game really just It's like, Whoah. This is this is here the whole time, but I just couldn't see it, you know? I think it's a fantastic topic. One question I

Edward Cleland:

Right. have for you wanted to put you on the spot with some of your methodology is for someone like me, who I, when I think of Org.. is like organization and or like organization in general. It paralyzes me, and I want to rebel against everything structured. So, for someone like me, what would you know? Because obviously, we need to have some sort of, you know, we need to have some way to like organize our thoughts and like to go about doing things. But so for someone who thrives in the disorganization? What would you What would you coach me on? Or like, what would you use to help me become more structured? Well,this is this is gonna sound common to any of my players that hear this, I would ask you questions.

Kyle Warren:

Okay.

Edward Cleland:

You know, I would start to just ask you about, you know, how you felt about that hour? Or, you know, if you told me, Hey, I'm sick of being late to, to my meetings, or, you know, I feel that I'm getting somewhere rushed. Or, you know, why am I self judging myself here? and we start to just gently unpack those. Very rarely do I tell somebody what to do. I can't really remember the last time I told somebody what they should eat or what they should do. But through asking them really powerful, open ended questions, which is my education. You know, you start to find out not not just why, I tell my coaches all the time, quit asking people why asking people, why automatically puts you in defensive, it puts you in a position where, you know, all you're left with is trying to defend something. You know, but if you talk to them about what and how, if you ask them what and how questions if you tell them how you feel, instead of asking them why because ask somebody why question really is couching how you actually feel instead, and you can usually hear it in their voice. So I think what I would What do I probably ask you, and if you want to exercise it on the air, we can, you know, but I would ask you, you know how it feels to feel disorganized. And if there was a time that you can recall that your disorganization led you to an outcome that you weren't happy with?

Kyle Warren:

Yeah, I mean, there's, I mean, from small to from small to large, you know, there's things such as, like, when I wake up... lately, it's been a habit, you know, where I don't give myself the amount of time that I need to, like, fully wake up for the day, if that makes sense. I shortchange my meditation practice. And I think part of what I struggle with is like, the.. is breaking that, like, what needs to happen for that to break and like, when, when am I just going to stop because I, when I get in that mode, I just feel like I'm stuck there. It's just It feels like a repetitive motion that I just cannot get out of. And the thought of like, changing that is terrifying. You know, it's because I've built a sense of comfort around it. Even though I don't like it. It's comfortable, if that makes sense.

Edward Cleland:

Sounds like you feel like it's very deeply entrenched.

Kyle Warren:

Yeah. Yeah. Like it's stuck, like I get I have a fear of like being stuck, but yet I put myself in positions to be stuck. It doesn't make any sense.

Edward Cleland:

Some of the business call that self sabotaging. Well, you know, it makes perfect sense. We're humans, you know, first off, you're a human. So don't don't expect yourself to, to not just continually mess these things up. It comes with a programming that's just automatically built in our hardware. Yeah. And then to judge ourselves off of it's also part of that, you know, and you said something interesting, you know, they're big and small. Okay, so it sounds like they're all over the place. So I certainly wouldn't help you. First off by focusing on the big ones. We'd start off by talking about one of the small ones. You know, and if you said, "Well, I'm, I'm not giving myself that time in the morning," that's when lifestyle starts coming into it too. Because if we, if we circle back in the the coach and therapist and he wants to say we circle back to the Why, we discussed the why. You know, make sure it's something that's actually giving you what you want from it if the meditation wasn't giving you what you want. So then we find out that you're just self sabotaging. And then we move into the the structured life in the scheduling and what are you doing? And you know, you tell me about the three hours a night watching Tik-Tok, right. Okay. And that doesn't mean as much to you, as you know, the meditation, right? And you say, yeah, and so we start breaking it down, and how well, I would probably ask you, you know, how would it feel to know to feel like you achieved all of this tomorrow? You know, and then you would, it started visualizing what that looks like, and I love visualizations, animating that picture. I think with these players, something I actually mentioned to someone today, one of our pro players that's doing great He's crushing it right now. He's won. He's won a title before. And I said to him, you know, when you won the title, did you feel like before you played for the championship, you had to get puffed up and convince yourself you're a champion before you played? Did you have to believe that to win your championship? He said, No, No, I didn't. I didn't have to really fully think that I was a champ. And I found that everyone that wins, you know, yes, Desi Linden. That was one of our clients for running groups. She won the Boston Marathon for first American female, the winning years. Michigander might I point out and ran it in inclement weather, which we are known for, she even took a Porto-John break her her teammate took like a few minute poop break. She waited for what you said, you know, if you ask most athletes, that's how cool cool and calm she is. Yeah, let her friend poop and then finish the race and, you know, beat all the Kenyans and everyone else just incredible. But, you know, did she have to accept that she's a champion before she was able to become a champion? No, no, no, you don't think about it like that. You don't think about the mountain top while you're in the middle of climbing the mountain that's not part of this, right? We focus on today in these little steps. So you know, in that way, I would say alright, well, let's take one little step. How do we break this down one little step, I don't want to talk about the big thing to show me how you do one little step. And then you know what, Kyle do four or five little steps for a little period of time, and all of a sudden, you're doing the big shit. And you just, none of it means anything to you anymore. And, you know, it's the little little process over and over again, over time.

Kyle Warren:

I like that. Thank you. Thank you for that. I appreciate you breaking it down. I had to put you on the spot for that. Because

Edward Cleland:

I don't mind, I wasn't gonna turn it into a therapy session, though. And I'm also not going to start, you know, giving you the answer. I'm too much of a savvy vet to try to tell you there's an answer. Yes. More questions.

Kyle Warren:

Right.

Edward Cleland:

You know, it's more questions than anyone. And you know, I say this to the young registered dieticians. I mean, if you walk around telling people, you know what they should be eating without doing massive homework on these people bloodwork metabolic, you know, I've got 20 different blood labs that I can run here in our clinic, you know, you're gonna walk around and tell somebody carbs are bad for them. Well, you didn't study Ayurvedic medicine or traditional Chinese medicine or, you know, what, what are they eating around the world? They're eating carbs, you know, how can you tell me that they have lower incidences of diabetes and disease and everything else? So if we think we know, we're in a great deal of trouble, you know, and certainly the more I'm educated, the more I understand that. There's a lot that we don't know, our gut is sending more neurological feedback to our brain and our brain is our gut. those neurons, they didn't know about that 20 years ago, we don't have a clue. I mean, there's no medical intervention today that we're doing the same way we did 20 years ago, and that'll continue to be the way.

Kyle Warren:

Right i i love that and I'm gonna trace it back to my story because just because it relates to it and why alcoholism and drug addiction are, they don't when you compare it because I consider them illnesses but you look at can you compare illnesses like okay, alcoholism to diabetes, and the way people look at that, you know, there's there's a way to treat that you know, there's a way there's medicine to treat diabetes, but when it comes to alcoholism, like I I tried moderating, I tried changing brands, I tried only doing you know, using when it was a good day using when it was a bad day use it, there was no method that I really could put in place and it had to come from a I had to have a spiritual experience that was outside of myself, and all of a sudden, like that, my whole attitude and outlook a complete psychic change had to occur for me to get well and also stay well you know, I had to continue to have these you know, in order to do that and it makes absolutely no sense when at least to me that like is you know,

Edward Cleland:

Well the way you just said it though it kind of and I've had alcoholism hit close to home in my personal life. And you know, we talked so much about patterns in the community around the person in their environment and what kind of structure in the day and their intake of thought it's an interesting thing because what kind of what I was left with with the way you just described it was that the common denominator there was always alcohol. And you know, we're a chemical being we, dopamine gets thrown around a lot in our community right? Everything is huge on the dopamine man, you know, and Edward It was a dopamine day you know? Okay, that's great. How did you feel after the dopamine Ah, bro huge letdown huge drop off? Well, yeah, man. I mean, if you're if you're using it as the vehicle to get somewhere, then you know, demonte and I had a really cool talk about this recently, because if you watch him before his LCS matches that the guys hype, is hype. It's on The Heist (100T Docuseries). Yeah, he throws it out there. He's fun to be around. He's got great energy and but what if it's a bus to five? It can't can he? Can he hold that? You know, and what's the energy management in a bus to five versus a Bo1 with that, right? And so the vehicle for him is always energy. But there's a, there's a, an understanding of, you know, if I light a fire, I tell this to Closer as well, I'll use that name because not everyone might not know him as John. You know, you can light a fire, but if it you know, it's bright, it's a bright fire, it's important, it lights up the room, it shows the way to your teammates, if it's too big of a fire, it lights you on fire, if it's too big of a fire, it burns the whole place down, right, and there are certain vehicles that you can take, and you can manipulate in a way that they can be used. And for some people, alcohol is one of those. And for some people it's not. And recognizing that both are allowed to exist, you know, you're allowed to live in a world that for you, this vehicle is one that you can't drive at all, and you're allowed to live in a world that for other people, they might be able to drive it and use it effectively to some degree and manage it differently. Again, comparing ourselves to other people gets us in trouble.

Kyle Warren:

It does

Edward Cleland:

right.

Kyle Warren:

I like that. No, and I think you You brought some really good points here. And I guess I want to I want it you know, we're kind of coming up on the hour. And I wanted to want to want to start wrapping things up here is, you know, with the one thing I always like, like to ask people is something I try to consistently ask myself is that, you know, when you grow up, what do you want to be?

Edward Cleland:

I'm having a lot of fun.

Kyle Warren:

I like it

Edward Cleland:

I'm having a lot of fun. You know, I'm, I'm 39 years old, and I had some goals to try to get done before I turned 40. And I feel like I'm on a pretty good trajectory with that. But what do I want to be when I'm older? a good dad. I mean, that's probably the only answer. I don't, you know, a good man probably comes up pretty quickly for me, take care of others around me, make sure my wife feels proud of me and can always trust me. But, you know, professionally continue to help people

Kyle Warren:

Like that

Edward Cleland:

You know, and, and I love doing it in eSports. It's a I'm not working, this isn't work. And I'm putting in hours. I mean, my gosh, I'm putting in the hours, but it's I don't mind it one bit. I love it. I remember when my father My father was an entrepreneur and owned a Dental PPO. And he told me his favorite time of the week was Monday at 6am.

Kyle Warren:

I love that.

Edward Cleland:

And he told me this in high school. And he used to wake me up on Saturdays and like roll me out of bed early on Saturdays and tell me to go do something, I'm like "Dad at 7am on Saturday, you're nuts." But you know, I don't look at my calendar and you know, think oh, man, it's Friday at midnight, and I'm on the call with golden glue. This is a terrible, terrible Friday night. You know, it's nuts. I've got my health, my family's healthy. Players are thriving. Life is really good, man.

Kyle Warren:

That's incredible, man. Thank you. Thank you for Thank you for coming on again. And And last question, you know, last question here is if you're, if you had to give any, you know, we talked about a little earlier, but if you wanted to give advice to someone who is looking to do what you're doing here today, you know, is there any, any any piece you would give them?

Edward Cleland:

Yeah, I would say be true to what you believe is the like, like we were just talking about with vehicles, you know, be true with what you believe is that that method, there's not going to be back to your your reference of skinning the cat, right? There's not there's not one way to go about this, some teams or some orgs are going to say that they are going to prioritize fitness or nutrition or mental health, or one over the other some orgs are going to throw all three at it because they're progressive. You know, become become an expert at what you know. I mean, I can't tell you that the amount of hours I think, I think if people knew how much work that I've put into this. I don't even know if they'd want it. You know, it sounds great. It looks great. It's a lot of fun. I'm in some cool videos on YouTube, you know, I have a good I get paid well, but you know, to get to this point, I'm someone who doesn't mind running 50 miles through the desert. I'll go do that. And you've got to find out what is it about that part of health, that you don't mind doing that for whatever, you know, I tell my athletes, you got to be the guy that's willing to die in the ring. And they know I'm that guy, I'm willing to die in the ring, you know, but you got to find out what that is. And the A it can't it can't be fluff you got to really study and work and, and I do think academia has an element of it. And I'm not just saying that because I'm completing a doctorate and spent all my life savings probably forever. You know, but becoming an expert in this. I don't think you know it. I mean You don't know, just just because you finished school he did something well do students continue to be a student. Yeah, I like that. I guess if I if I have one last word Yeah. But be be willing to grow we, the student mindset. You know, I think if I walked into the room with a player and said, Hey, this worked for JKS now you're gonna do it, I think that would be a big problem. We have to be a student and be willing to help.

Kyle Warren:

I like that. I like that. Thank you so much. I got to do a quick self promo for you. You know, where can people find you? Were you the most active you know.

Edward Cleland:

I gotta get better at this part myself. My business manager is killing me He's like, why don't you have a YouTube channel? Why aren't you doing all this people people know behind the scenes who I am and no clue who I am in front of the curtains right? You know, for right now. Just follow me on Twitter, I guess. And you can find my other things we're not we're certainly not taking on any free sorry to all the young kids out there that messaged me every day that they want to talk about that. They're getting crushed, mentally playing valorant and, you know, all that we're not currently taking on anyone, any new clients, but they can find me there and I'm happy I think I've replied to.. I joke with the players that I send them thank you notes when they when they like my tweets, because I have such a small following. So if they if they want to connect with me online, that's probably the best spot for now. And then all my socials are through that

Kyle Warren:

Cool, and what's your social? What's your social media handle?

Edward Cleland:

Hey, thank you, Kyle. It's a mind body dot eSports in That's it, everything else Mind Body eSports on Twitter,

Kyle Warren:

I like it. I like it. Had to prod a little bit there.

Edward Cleland:

I don't my business. My business manager kills me. You know, if I continue to sell supplements to everyone that I've sold fish oil and vitamin D to over the last 15 years, I could probably retire on the residuals. You know, it's something where I really am "be here now" is on the wall all over the place in here. And I really do kind of live in that in that world where I'm not. I tell the players don't look at the outside world. And I was on the phone with Ryan at 100 Thieves yesterday and I said Ryan, I had a hell of a week. He goes you haven't lost lately. I said yeah, I didn't even realize until today. We haven't had an L in a while and not to jinx us because we got a ton of matches right now.

Kyle Warren:

Right?

Edward Cleland:

You know, but yeah, we're, we're doing good. And that's because we're focused on the intrinsic focus on yourself. Don't focus on what other people can do for you. Just keep focusing on yourself. Yeah,

Kyle Warren:

Yeah. Yeah.

Edward Cleland:

Thank you, Kyle. I appreciate your time. And it's been nice chatting with you.

Kyle Warren:

Absolutely. All right. Hey, you have a very busy I'm actually about to go watch some of the LA Thieves matches right now.

Edward Cleland:

Good. Yeah, I gotta get back on the stream myself. All right. Take care of my Cheers.

Edward Cleland

Guest

Professional Esports Performance Specialist | Mind Body Medicine Practitioner | Mental Health | Psychophysiology | Functional Nutrition | Team Optimization